OCTOBER 3RD, 2006 — 8:00 EDT — LIVE THREAD

[Brian Manzella]

What does it FEEL like? It feels like it is a mile behind the ball.

I was making a different swing today, different set-up and very still head for me.

I could hit ANY SHOT, DOING ANYTHING, except....

When I put my head too far forward...

FORE RIGHT!!!

 

[Brian Manzella]

I do not try to 'center' my head between my feet at address, but make no effort to be 'way behind' it either. I do not try to keep it still, nor do I try to move it in the swing.

As George Knudsen said in his book, "the head moves as it will".

I know that if I get my weight too far forward (thowing the hips forward) that my head will fall back to counterbalance - I hate that with irons, because I feel I can no longer 'hit down. I can get away with it when using the driver but do not like it.

I like a steady head, but not still.

Bruce

I agree with you. Almost 100%

 

[rchang72]

is feel real?

Is it different for different clubs/shots?
I like to feel on top of it for shorter irons...a little behind it for driver...too far and I lose timing, too little and I get underneath it and blocks/flippy

Homerson, just curious, but have you had pictures or video to see where your head really was? Also, do you move the ball position back in the stance with the short irons?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Is it different for different clubs/shots?
I like to feel on top of it for shorter irons...a little behind it for driver...too far and I lose timing, too little and I get underneath it and blocks/flippy

That's correct....and why the stance gets wide with the longer clubs....well....one of the reasons....

 

[Tom Bartlett]

I do not try to 'center' my head between my feet at address, but make no effort to be 'way behind' it either. I do not try to keep it still, nor do I try to move it in the swing.

As George Knudsen said in his book, "the head moves as it will".

I know that if I get my weight too far forward (thowing the hips forward) that my head will fall back to counterbalance - I hate that with irons, because I feel I can no longer 'hit down. I can get away with it when using the driver but do not like it.

I like a steady head, but not still.

Bruce

I'll go for that.

 

[Bill Miracle]

So....does the head get so far behind the balll.....

When I put my head too far forward...

FORE RIGHT!!!

as a result of back pivot, axis tilt or both.

I am hitting tons of pushes lately. Cleaned up alignment. Ball flight is usually excellent (so is distance)

 

[blehnhard]

Not a Hooker

Grew up slicing the ball, so the inside / shut move was to try to learn to draw it - not very successful. Even now, for every ball I miss left of the target, I miss 10 to the right.

When I am "on", I play a slight fade off the tee and either draw or fade everything else when I need to. If I had to play a shot for my life though, it would be a Fade!

Even now when I try to draw it with the driver, more often then not, I will get too far inside, can't release and hit a heel block push fade (ugly).

My best shots feel as if I am slightly OTT, and then I can 'hold the face' off slightly to produce a strong fade.

 

[Brian Manzella]

as a result of back pivot, axis tilt or both.

I am hitting tons of pushes lately. Cleaned up alignment. Ball flight is usually excellent (so is distance)

It can get too far back a number of ways.

Funny thing though—and Tom Bartlett will back this up—an old student of mine Daniel Carr, has MASSIVE head movement on the backswing, and

THE STEADIEST HEAD THROUGH THE BALL OF ANYONE YOU EVER SAW.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Grew up slicing the ball, so the inside / shut move was to try to learn to draw it - not very successful. Even now, for every ball I miss left of the target, I miss 10 to the right.

When I am "on", I play a slight fade off the tee and either draw or fade everything else when I need to. If I had to play a shot for my life though, it would be a Fade!

Even now when I try to draw it with the driver, more often then not, I will get too far inside, can't release and hit a heel block push fade (ugly).

My best shots feel as if I am slightly OTT, and then I can 'hold the face' off slightly to produce a strong fade.

But, my point was....your backswing works best for a LEFT-to-RIGHT ball-flight.

 

[rchang72]

A bit of what's being discussed, but on the takeaway thread. We're talking a lot about training what we should do with our body/pivot. Where. or when, or does one even need to train the hands and arms in the takeaway?

 

[Brian Manzella]

It (always) depends.

Homer said it best.

Train the PIVOT FIRST!

 

[Bill Miracle]

So, head too far forward...you go right.

It can get too far back a number of ways.

Funny thing though—and Tom Bartlett will back this up—an old student of mine Daniel Carr, has MASSIVE head movement on the backswing, and

THE STEADIEST HEAD THROUGH THE BALL OF ANYONE YOU EVER SAW.

How are you keeping your head back. As a result of back pivot ? I guess the axis tilt should not move the head, right?

 

[Brian Manzella]

I agree with Knudsen and Bruce.

It never worry about the golfer's head.

Unless their head is STOPPING the pivot from doing something.

As far as keeping it BACK through impact:

It is more of a product of the REST of the pivot (left shoulder up and back and right shoulder down plane).

 

[Brian Manzella]

9:10 EDT

At 9:10, I am closing this thread and we will do another very soon....(I'll announce it).

Any other important questions???

 

[blehnhard]

Axis tilt

I know I (and I would assume many others) have often tried to creat AT by moving the head back. I believe that the correct way is to move the base of the spine forward with the head remaining where it was at set up - more over the ball for short shots, more behind as the stance gets wider for longer shots.

Please correct me if I am worng.

Bruce

 

[Brian Manzella]

Hey Brian, thanks for the live chat. What are the most common problems you see people have with their putting and is there a couple of fundamentals that all really good putters have?

Thanks,
Jim S.

I think golfers make the putter go out to right field too much and have to close the face as a result.

Good putters have clubface control and a CONSISTANT path.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Homerson, just curious, but have you had pictures or video to see where your head really was? Also, do you move the ball position back in the stance with the short irons?

Yeah...I get on my video regularly. It is more centered than it has ever been which is scary because what I believe on this subject more closely resembles Brian's preferred proceedure(point between shoulders).
Ball position for me is completely feel based...I see a shot, and my ball 'magically' finds a place.

 

[rchang72]

It (always) depends.

Just my opinion, Brian, but it seems that much of what you are teaching and emphasizing in the pivot seems as a reaction to the hand/arm oriented teaching that you see currently on the web, and even the mainstream mags. I seem to remember a few years ago, when the vogue was all large body motion, you were the first I read about educating your hands. This sound about right?

 

[Brian Manzella]

I know I (and I would assume many others) have often tried to creat AT by moving the head back. I believe that the correct way is to move the base of the spine forward with the head remaining where it was at set up - more over the ball for short shots, more behind as the stance gets wider for longer shots.

Please correct me if I am worng.

Bruce

You are correct.

But— I feel as though the spine ALSO GOES BACK as it goes FORWARD and almost everyone's head will go back a TEENY bit as a result.

 

[Jared Willerson]

Thanks for the Live Thread Brian, got here late, but just wanted to chime in.

IMO pivot and educated hands make for a pretty good player.