O'Hair leaves swing coach Foley - Brian Manzella response p4

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wulsy

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Brian Manzella said:
I sure wish I had a good face on and DTL from this week......
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Does Tiger talk to David Toms? IMO, Tiger will come to BManz when he realises that golf is not about "owning your swing", and not before. It's about knowing what your swing does to the ball, and knowing what to do with your swing. Maybe DT can point him in the right direction.

Tiger is a fool. Full stop. The man is a great golfer, but he is not the most gifted when it comes to self management. How could he be? His father told him what to do his entire life. Now he has Sean Foley telling him what to do. Sean is a nice guy, wants to encourage world peace and is happy when others are happy etc etc. Tiger's Dad was egocentric and wasn't into world peace (as far as I know). So where does Tiger find himself now? Confused.

In fact to say that Tiger is confused is an understatement. The man is confused to the core. The guy needs help. He NEEDS to be a great golfer again. And I truly believe that, if anyone can, BManz can make him great again. But will Tiger have the savvy to seek him out? That maybe up to DT...
 
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Brian Manzella

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wulsy said:
Does Tiger talk to David Toms? ...
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Wulsy,

Sean Foley coached Tiger to a near win in Augusta. His swing looked much, much better than a couple of weeks prior.

Who knows what is going on with his knee? None of my business.

Sean's "life philosophy" (I've never met anyone without one) is surely HIS and not being transferred to Tiger. Sean is his SWING coach, not life coach.

If David was asked by any Tour player or golfer of any kind, he'd answer honestly about my ability to help someone. But "selling" is not his style.

Sean deserves some time to get it right. The other guys did.
 
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ekennedy

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I could be waaaay off base here, BManz, but some of the things that you've posted in the past few weeks would lead someone to believe that you've given Sean Foley your two cents worth on how to best address Tiger's swing issues. For someone who is clearly not afraid to call a spade a spade, you seem to give Foley the benefit of the doubt. Are you doing a little consulting on the side?
 
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MikeD2

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Whether they participate or not, I think you would be surprised at the large number of touring pros, club pros and instructors who follow this forum. I would definitely count Sean Foley in that group.
 
oldpro

oldpro

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MikeD2 said:
Whether they participate or not, I think you would be surprised at the large number of touring pros, club pros and instructors who follow this forum. I would definitely count Sean Foley in that group.
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I believe that's true regarding tour pros.
 
TROYNYGOLFER

TROYNYGOLFER

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mgranato said:
No problem. I don't understand why some of his biggest fans/supporters (not saying you are or aren't one) don't expect more of him. IMO, it is a perfectly legit argument to talk about Tiger now versus then. He's not the same mentally, not the same physically, not the same determination, not the same spiritually, not the same financially, etc, etc. No one would question his heart pre 2010 because his actions didn't allow it. Can you honestly say that is still the case? Is it unfair to fully recognize the brilliance of what he was, while fully recognizing what he currently is?

TBall raised a good question, if he shoots 33 instead of 42, do you think he's still in the event?
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MG, if memory serves, you have had your share of orthopedic issues. Did you not find the pain was worse when you were playing poorly? I concur with most of your take on Tiger, but submit that it is a little preliminary to question his heart. I have never played any sport on a level even remotely close to the Tour, but I do recall when my arm was imploding as a teenager on the mound, the elbow sure felt better when there were zeros on the scoreboard. When my ACL was interrupting junior hockey progression to be the next Ken Dryden, it sure hurt a lot more the day those Canadian All-Stars lit me up five times in ten minutes. Today, I deal with tendinitis and a herniated disc. It sure feels better when I am even par. If I shoot 42 on the front nine, and its cold outside, the pain nearly doubles on a relative scale. Tiger is human.
 
jpvegas1

jpvegas1

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David Leadbetter in an interview with Gary D'amato of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal had some pretty astute comments on Tiger.

Woods: "Let's put it this way: Tiger has so much talent that if he believes in any sort of methodology he's going to make it work somehow. He's been through a few swing changes. This is another one. I like some of the stuff he's working on, I have to say. But to me he is getting very mechanical. At Augusta, he was looking at video of his swing on every tee in the practice rounds. In the past, he took what Butch Harmon and Hank Haney gave him and worked it out. I do like the way he's getting the club to the top in a better manner. To some extent, when he's swung well his backswing looks a little bit like it did a few years ago. His swing each week seems to be different. He has a predisposition with his left knee; he worked with Hank Haney to try to calm that injury down. You just hope a knee injury for a player like Tiger, who is so explosive, does not affect him for the rest of his career. He's missing a few putts that he never used to miss. You could almost guarantee that he was never miss a putt under 6 feet. Anything under 6 feet was a gimmee. The other factor is I'm sure he has a lot going on in his mind. I don't think he has quite the intimidation factor that he had three or four years ago. He'd sense there was an opening and he'd take it. Look how he played Augusta. Three years ago, he would have won the tournament. from that point (after moving into a tie for the lead halfway through the final round). That's the difference. He got himself in position to win and he didn't do the job. Who knows why? Mental or physical. Not to say he can't get back to his previous level, but it will be more difficult now. These young players, there's a different mentality about these guys. Tiger is almost a generation older than these guys, the (Rory) McIlroys and Jason Days. They're not afraid of him."
 
mgranato

mgranato

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TROYNYGOLFER said:
MG, if memory serves, you have had your share of orthopedic issues. Did you not find the pain was worse when you were playing poorly? I concur with most of your take on Tiger, but submit that it is a little preliminary to question his heart. I have never played any sport on a level even remotely close to the Tour, but I do recall when my arm was imploding as a teenager on the mound, the elbow sure felt better when there were zeros on the scoreboard. When my ACL was interrupting junior hockey progression to be the next Ken Dryden, it sure hurt a lot more the day those Canadian All-Stars lit me up five times in ten minutes. Today, I deal with tendinitis and a herniated disc. It sure feels better when I am even par. If I shoot 42 on the front nine, and its cold outside, the pain nearly doubles on a relative scale. Tiger is human.
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When I talk about his heart, I'm talking about his give-a-damn being broke. You can play through a lot UNTIL you're give-a-damn is broke. From my experience, that's the toughest "injury" to bounce back from.
 
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wulsy

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mgranato said:
When I talk about his heart, I'm talking about his give-a-damn being broke. You can play through a lot UNTIL you're give-a-damn is broke. From my experience, that's the toughest "injury" to bounce back from.
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This may be the most telling comment about Tiger Woods yet. That "mental" injury is a killer.
 
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ekennedy

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The amazing thing about Tiger is that if he ever gets healthy, he will use all of the negative things that everyone has said about him over the past few years and turn it into the world's biggest chip on his shoulder, a la Barry Bonds. He will convince himself that he's an underdog and that the odds are completely against him to succeed. It will be a driving force in his life and he will probably get back to winning golf tournaments again, only with a bit of an edge to him this time.

And the public and media will love it.
 
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spktho

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mgranato said:
his give-a-damn.
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Good way of putting it. Physical pain takes it toll on that too.

ekennedy said:
The amazing thing about Tiger is that if he ever gets healthy, he will use all of the negative things that everyone has said about him over the past few years and turn it into the world's biggest chip on his shoulder, a la Barry Bonds. He will convince himself that he's an underdog and that the odds are completely against him to succeed. It will be a driving force in his life and he will probably get back to winning golf tournaments again, only with a bit of an edge to him this time.
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The motivation for many athletes and people in general--to show someone they are wrong about you.
 
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gmbtempe

gmbtempe

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See what happens when you dump foley and revamp your swing like Ohair did in one week...you contend at the Players.
 
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ScottRob

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Do you really think that is why O'Hair played better in The Players? Seems like we give swing gurus too much credit for both the good and the bad. I am sure O'Hair gave Foley a glowing endorsement until....well until he started to hit it less than perfect.

By professional standards O'Hair is a poor putter, so he needs to hit it "extra" well. Probably not a coach in the land than can satisify his lust for ball-striking deification. It is a sickness really. More and more I like the quirky swings out there. Those do not look like the creations of rabid line drawers.

I agree with what Bubba said about Tiger. To me his driver was always a bit dodgy, but his ability to score was otherworldly. Seems as though he is forgetting that low score wins, and that he can win with his B game. I never thought I would see Tiger's short game deteriorate to the point it has.
 
gmbtempe

gmbtempe

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That was the point of my post, nothing could have changed in a week.

Tiger always has been analytical about the golf swing, telling him not to be and just swing it probably does not resonate with him.
 
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