Oliver Heuler on plane (w/Manzella Audio)
- Thread starter Mathew
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My corrections trying to keep any golfing machine terminology to a minimum.....
Setup - I would like to see his right forearm in the same plane as the clubshaft to where it intends to return for impact and putting the club more into the cup of the right hand. Also his head location more towards its impact alignment directly in the center of his stance to keep it more towards stationary during the stroke(centered arc).
Summary -
Right Forearm on plane with the clubshaft
Head Location in center of stance (impact alignment)
Backstroke - I would like to see a more geometrically oriented start-up. By having the clubshaft in the same plane as the right forearm he could begin his backstroke by tracing the plane line with his the right forefinger and have the club travel up the plane in a three dimensional backstroke. I would like to see him to have his right arm always in a pushing state, using his right triceps to stretch the the left arm (what we call extensor action) and use this to help to immediately swivel his left wrist against the plane.
I would like him to keep all right wrist cock out of the backstroke and maintain his impact alignment of the right forearm keeping an angled extension of the clubshaft. I would also like to see no sway.
Summary -
Right Forearm Tracing the plane line sencing with the right forefinger
Extensor action
Start-up swivel
Keeping the right wrist level in its impact alignment whilst the left wrist cocks.
Stationary Head
Downstroke - After the changes on the backstroke. He must be aware of that line and be aware he is going to be uncocking the left wrist on it before the release swivel (what he call a sequenced release, for further study read 4-D-0).
I would try to get him to again keep the extensor action - the right arm always pulling the left arm like it was a piece of string, yet never moving it (non-accelerating thrust). This right triceps extensor action should be kept at least till both arms are straight.
I would like him to feel a pressure where his left arm touches his chest from the right shoulder going downplane.
I would like him to feel the right forefinger and passively direct (not thrust) the lag pressure. He needs to construct a line mentally from where the right forefinger at the top of the backstroke and smash to the inside aft quadrant of the ball or alternate point on plane line (onplane force 1-L-10).
I would like to see him work on his hinge actions with some short shots also - this would take too long to explain for the purposes of this post...
Summary
Delivery Line Preperation - uncock and roll
Extensor Action
Sequenced Release
#4 pressure
Straight Line Delivery Path
Hinge Action
Thats just my take....
Axel_WIngert
New
vjcapron- the guy's name is Felix Lubenau. He is a German playing professional.
Michael Finney
New
I honestly hope that no one takes this wrong...especially my German friends.....but Felix looks like he may be a "struggling" German playing professional...this is just a guess
When I was an apprentice I was very fortunate that Denis came to Hamburg almost once a month. That must have been 1988 or so. As a junior member of the Hamburg Golf Association I didn’t even have to pay for his seminars. At the time in my second professional year I had the best video equipment in Germany. I had the first video camera with a high-speed shutter, allowing pictures without blur, and a four head video machine with a jog-shuttle, allowing a comfortable frame-by-frame advance, forward and backwards.
But I had no idea what to teach. I saw all the high handicappers hitting early and all the tour players hitting late. So I taught all my higher handicappers to hit later — with disastrous results (shanking terrible slicing, topping).
Denis knew how to set up a camera, how to draw lines on the screen and what to look for. At the time the formula was: posture, pivot, plane, linkage, release. That was at least a starting conception in what to look for. Almost all the other pros I went to see in Germany had no concept whatsoever or thei concepts were so flawed that even I could tell that they didn’t have the answers I was looking for. Denis was always very nice to me. He shared everything and he never talked badly about other pros. I couldn’t hope for a better start into my teaching career. I was very proud that Denis wrote the preface for my second book. I think it was 1992.
I kept on teaching like this in my first years as an assistant in Donaueschingen and was happy with my results with better players. But I couldn’t help the higher handicappers as much as I would have liked. When I met Haney and Jacobs I knew I wanted to move more towards integrating the ball flight.
It was interesting to hear Denis talk at the TCC about how he saw the years in retrospective. Apparently he also has changed a lot. And even though I disagreed with his way of analyzing his three students, I still respect him very much. He has earned his place in the history of the better-known teachers and I will always be thankful for all the information he shared with me.
Felix is a playing professional, yet he has throwaway of the type you might see in a high handicapper - doesn't that make anyone's alarm go off? The backswing looks the part and he has a pretty flat left wrist at the top. There must be something fairly unusual about his swing that makes him release so early.
I don't know this guy, but in my eyes there is no way he swung like that all his life, all the way up to a +3 handicap. Something crept in and Haney apparently couldn't find it.
Ulrich
I don't know this guy, but in my eyes there is no way he swung like that all his life, all the way up to a +3 handicap. Something crept in and Haney apparently couldn't find it.
Ulrich
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Boy, could I help this guy.
Steve Khatib
Super Moderator
I saw that lesson live in 2003, gee that poor Felix guy had all kinds of snares.
He is an example of a good player being able to time their throw(but this does not work all of the time).
He didnt even look like getting better in that lesson. Its so sad that professional instructors cannot adress such simple issues like clubhead throwaway, over acceleration and leekage!
He is an example of a good player being able to time their throw(but this does not work all of the time).
He didnt even look like getting better in that lesson. Its so sad that professional instructors cannot adress such simple issues like clubhead throwaway, over acceleration and leekage!
Brian Manzella
Administrator
YIKES!, put the ball in a divot for for CRYINGOUTLOUD!
Sure, this is the easy part in the analysis. But how would you fix this quy?
Back to the plane theory of the GM:
I found an example that should serve well to explain to me how a good golfing machine example would look like.
http://www.golf-tips.info/video/langer.mov
Quicktime 7.0 is required to watch this H.264 encoded movie (best quality at reasonable size, the codec of the future if you ask me)
I filmed Bernhard Langer from 100 yards away so we can neglect the parallax problem and since I used a high definition camera, we still have a reasonable resolution. If more detail should be required I can go up to 1920 * 1080 pixels. I showed the same swing twice: once with the even pictures and once with the odd pictures.
Would the golfing machine call this a singe shift? Bernhard starts at a plane that is as flat as the lie of his club — maybe three degrees flat. He then lifts his arms to above the turned shoulder plane at the top and then drops down a little to pretty exactly the turned shoulder plane, which he reaches when his club head is at shoulder height. From there the club stays on the turned shoulder plane almost till the end.
PS: I would like to ask everyone to talk with respect about the swing examples that we discuss. These are real people and especially Felix is a very nice guy. The fact that he might release a little early doesn't make him less valuable as a human being.
birdie_man
New
As far as I can tell, all criticism has been towards his "Lag" and not his person....
You're right though, it should stay that way.
The Throwaway IS really obvious though- that's the thing.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Oliver, have you ever seen: "Confessions of Former Flipper" by Brian Michael Manzella?
Hi!
I have a new picture that should help explain my theory. The yellow line shows the path of the second knuckle of the right index finger going up and down. The move above the original shaft plane (blue line) begins immediately in the take-away. The broken line is just for reference. It is a direct connection of the starting point and the top of the backswing.
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Oliver
I have a new picture that should help explain my theory. The yellow line shows the path of the second knuckle of the right index finger going up and down. The move above the original shaft plane (blue line) begins immediately in the take-away. The broken line is just for reference. It is a direct connection of the starting point and the top of the backswing.
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Any progress to report?
Oliver
How can I? I still don’t understand much more about the GM than a week ago.
The few explanations I got were mostly in the same language as the GM itself.
I am sorry but again I don’t understand. I looked up the definition of plane line in the GM but what I found didn’t help me either:
Three “its” in a row. But what do they refer to? The ball, the plane line the base line. I might not be a very bright guy but I asked some bright guys around me and they also didn’t understand.
What is an onplane force good for? I know that I need to create some club head speed. But that is more a question of a proper hitting action. I have yet to find the main source of power according to the golfing machine. Where did Homer Kelley describe the bending and hit with the right wrist? I don’t mean the radial and ulnar deviation (power accumulator #2) but the hinging action (dorsi-flexion and palmar-flexion) of the right wrist.
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Watch Hogan’s right wrist in this picture. It is going from extremely cupped here to straight at impact in 1/40 of a second.
But back to the plane: If I understand it correctly Homer Kelley doesn’t have a preference for a particular plane, right? In these pictures he basically shows that everything goes.
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Why not add a 10 7 I? A shift in a human-like and not robot-like manner like I described above?
I liked Brian's comment that his plane theory is completely different from Homer's. What about the others? Where do you see misconceptions or missing things in the GM?
Oliver
birdie_man
New
Whoa Hogan mint.
Looks like that wrist is nice and flat.
Wait tho....just read what you said Hueler....
"Watch Hogan’s right wrist in this picture. It is going from extremely cupped here to straight at impact in 1/40 of a second."
Are you sure his right wrist is flat at Impact? I can't see that being right man.
Fill me in.
(and post more Hogan pics if you can! ....love Hoges)
Looks like that wrist is nice and flat.
Wait tho....just read what you said Hueler....
"Watch Hogan’s right wrist in this picture. It is going from extremely cupped here to straight at impact in 1/40 of a second."
Are you sure his right wrist is flat at Impact? I can't see that being right man.
Fill me in.
(and post more Hogan pics if you can!
....love Hoges)Right not completely straight, but straighter. It was a long hold misconception that a palmer-flexion of the right wrist will always cup the left wrist. I am demonstrating in this video why this is not the case:
http://www.golfforum.de/film1.html
It is in German but you can watch the pictures which should make it clear.
http://www.golfforum.de/film1.html
It is in German but you can watch the pictures which should make it clear.
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