Brian Manzella
Administrator
I have audio for you, Oliver (and others):
http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Music/oliverplane.mp3
http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Music/oliverplane.mp3
Oliver Heuler on plane (w/Manzella Audio)
- Thread starter Mathew
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Ok im trying here.
Imagine your doing a right arm only stroke without a club and you have a ball in your hand instead of a club. Now imagine you where going to throw the ball in your hand onto the ball on the ground (or a part of a line that is directly ahead or directly behind the ball).
Now remembering that the angle of our plane can change but the line where the plane goes into the ground can not. Notice to throw that ball at a point on that line how our throwing action is also directly towards that line. Notice that it also automatically travels down the plane line. Ideally at the top of the backstroke you want to be in a position to throw that ball - direct our thrust directly down on the plane.
With your concept of plane - you have to re-adjust.
Look at this picture I made and use as my signature from Lynns forum.
Where the plane goes through the ground...This is the plane line and it should never ever change and any thrust needs to be towards it !
You must also uncock and roll on this line...
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Where's the pic, Mathew?
Ok ill post it but since I made this for Lynns site ill use it to help promote it here.... www.lynnblakegolf.com
and the other pictures from different perspectives can be found here.... http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1333
Is that the one you were talking about ?
and the other pictures from different perspectives can be found here.... http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1333
Is that the one you were talking about ?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Great job, Mathew, but I wish it were an elipse.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I do too...but the naysayers will say no one swings in a circle.
birdie_man
New
Good audio answer Brian.
Isn't Sergio a Reverse-shifter tho?
http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/80523/1/3795130
Up TSP down on Elbow Plane?
Isn't Sergio a Reverse-shifter tho?
http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/80523/1/3795130
Up TSP down on Elbow Plane?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I just meant he shifted DOWN on the downstroke.
tongzilla
New
Brian is saying that it doesn't matter if you stay on the same plane on the downstroke (e.g. Zero or Single Shift) or shift onto the Elbow Plane (e.g. Double Shift), for both, the effort is straight at the ball. You never think about the shift. So that's the reason why it's often subconsiously employed.
Now, Brian, how can two players who are trying to do the same thing (i.e. straight line thrust to the ball from the top), get such different results?
Now, Brian, how can two players who are trying to do the same thing (i.e. straight line thrust to the ball from the top), get such different results?
Theres a great picture here on this site - http://www.clubmaker-online.com/bj003.html
Although Bobby did some idosyncrasies it gives you an idea ....
Although Bobby did some idosyncrasies it gives you an idea ....
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Here is a 'lined up' version of the Jones pic...make your own assumptions....
birdie_man
New
Ah.....so it (yellow) isn't a perfect circle (red).
Cool. Do most players look like that (circle compressed downward)?
Why does it happen though? Slight loss of Exensor Action? Bobbing (not sure bout that one)?
Cool. Do most players look like that (circle compressed downward)?
Why does it happen though? Slight loss of Exensor Action? Bobbing (not sure bout that one)?
Heuler in translation
"but the others in its forum appear to me rather like confused souls, which hold on to a book from the Sechzigern and from this rezitieren as from a Bible, everything in front Ben Doyle, which nearly everyone regards as a confused soul, which times met him. I read also much in the last week in the Bible, but my intellect and my patience are not sufficient simply, in order to check up the work complicated artificially in my eyes"
a nice neat version rewritten by me to make easier reading
"but the others in its forum appear to me rather like confused souls, which hold on to a book as though it was a Bible. Everyone who has met Ben Doyle regards him as a confused soul on the occasions they've met him. I have read much in the last week of the Bible, but my intellect and my patience are not simply sufficient in order to check up the overly complicated work in my eyes"
"but the others in its forum appear to me rather like confused souls, which hold on to a book from the Sechzigern and from this rezitieren as from a Bible, everything in front Ben Doyle, which nearly everyone regards as a confused soul, which times met him. I read also much in the last week in the Bible, but my intellect and my patience are not sufficient simply, in order to check up the work complicated artificially in my eyes"
a nice neat version rewritten by me to make easier reading
"but the others in its forum appear to me rather like confused souls, which hold on to a book as though it was a Bible. Everyone who has met Ben Doyle regards him as a confused soul on the occasions they've met him. I have read much in the last week of the Bible, but my intellect and my patience are not simply sufficient in order to check up the overly complicated work in my eyes"
The radius is shortened by the wristcock. If you look at the golfers flail (the one with a hinge pin, not the thong) in 2-K, when the left wrist is turned to the plane - the wristcock shortens the radius by producing a circular motion of the clubhead with its center being around the wrist. See how Brians blue circle around the hands is much more of a perfect circle...
This has a specific function, the shortening of the stroke radius enables the golfer to have a much faster initial acceleration rate on the downstroke..
You also have to notice that the picture is taken directly in front of Bobby here. The plane is tilted and as such will appear from this angle to be more eliptical anyways.
birdie_man
New
Ah IC!
The blue circle! More perfect.....gotcha.
I said lack Extensor Action but I realize this is wrong too.....it looks fatter on the sides cause he extends more that way....
So would someone with a very deliberate Snap Load in the Back Stroke, say Side Assembly Point, have a very "compressed" circle?
The blue circle! More perfect.....gotcha.
I said lack Extensor Action but I realize this is wrong too.....it looks fatter on the sides cause he extends more that way....
So would someone with a very deliberate Snap Load in the Back Stroke, say Side Assembly Point, have a very "compressed" circle?
I'll talk more about the loading action. If someone did say did a full sweep 10-22-A that radius would be reduced sooner than lets say someone who used snap 10-22-C. So that circle would get narrower sooner than that of someone who delayed it... after the wrist has been cocked or taken out of line - it will continue to work in that circle - a reduced circle which is narrower than in my diagram but the clubhead is still moving around the same center (left shoulder)....
The left wristcock produces a circular motion of the clubhead. Think of the final position of the wristcock as the left wrist is to the plane and think of the loading as a rate that that circular clubhead motion takes place before it moves in a circle again as it is fully loaded.... and you can envision the stroke radius for any given loading.
Regardless of how it is driven the lever assembly will always move in a circle - 1-L-9
The left wristcock produces a circular motion of the clubhead. Think of the final position of the wristcock as the left wrist is to the plane and think of the loading as a rate that that circular clubhead motion takes place before it moves in a circle again as it is fully loaded.... and you can envision the stroke radius for any given loading.
Regardless of how it is driven the lever assembly will always move in a circle - 1-L-9
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