Oliver Heuler on plane (w/Manzella Audio)

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by BigBadDonkey


We're not exactly spoilt for choice in this country. I'm sure there are a few hidden unknowns who can teach good stuff but it would be like guesswork. I think I'd feel safe going to see someone like TongZilla (forum member), but thats' the only one I can think of.

I appreciate your comment above. Maybe we can sort something out... a pint of beer, hinge action, on plane force...drop me a line: tongzilla@gmail.com and see what happens!

 

[cjgolf]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

"Everyone who has met Ben Doyle regards him as a confused soul"

It's Ben's students who are the truly confused ones. There's a reason why Clampett, O'Grady, and Elkington ran away.

wow thats a big statement

would u please give some specific verifiable evidence to support your statement

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by cjgolf

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

"Everyone who has met Ben Doyle regards him as a confused soul"

It's Ben's students who are the truly confused ones. There's a reason why Clampett, O'Grady, and Elkington ran away.

wow thats a big statement

would u please give some specific verifiable evidence to support your statement

The statement in quotes belongs to Oliver Heuler. As for my statement about students - Watch the entire agonizing video of Ben's lesson - he doesn't manage to find a way to convey to the student how to TRANSPORT the hands through impact via the pivot.

 

[6bee1dee]

The student just wanted to hit full swings, he was not much of a student. I have watched many videos of Ben teaching and he does a great job. His track record speaks for itself.

You seem to dislike many of the videos, Ben's or Lynn's. Could either of them teach the golf swing to you? If not, who can?

 

[MizunoJoe]

"he does a great job", unless he's "not much of a student".

"Could either of them teach the golf swing to you?" Only if I wanted to give up my max trigger delay, snap release of TWO cocked wrists, which are delivered through impact by hip action!

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

"he does a great job", unless he's "not much of a student".

"Could either of them teach the golf swing to you?" Only if I wanted to give up my max trigger delay, snap release of TWO cocked wrists, which are delivered through impact by hip action!

There is a responsiblity that the student has toward the lesson. That guy just wanted to smack balls around and hope the teacher says nice shot once in a while. I have seen Ben teach everyone from college kids to little old ladies and they are do well.

Sounds like it is time to post that swing, big boy. Lets see the prize machine you assemblied. Anyone too good for improvement has a swing we need to see.

 

[MizunoJoe]

"Sounds like it is time to post that swing, big boy."

Sounds like it's time for you to move to a forum more suited to your genre - fgi or gea!

 

[heuler]

I now watched quite a few videos of Lynn Blake and Ben Doyle and I must say that their teaching didn’t impress me very much. I now ordered all the new videos of Brian and I am sure that if anyone can get me closer to TGM it is he. I will get back to the discussion as soon as I have seen all of Brian’s material.

Oliver

 

[Brian Manzella]

Oliver, if my "Confessions of a Former Flipper" VIDEO doesn't impress you, I guess I will have to stand on my head.

 

[golfie]

Ian,

If you know what actually squares the clubface (for most) and then consider the design of short irons vs longer irons you will then understand why poor golfers can hit draws with short irons that abandon them with longer clubs.


Stick around I'm sure that some will want to educate you.

Golfie

quote:Originally posted by ian d m

I detect a little arrogance in this discussion; so I decided to maintain that tone too. Don't let that stop you learning, though.

Discussions with the Golf Machine Union are always tough. That said here goes.... Simply put: the swing plane is important because having the shaft approach impact on its original plane angle is the best chance you have to reliably square the face for the hit (I should have said impact; hopefully now a meaningless debate over hitting or swinging won't start ) when you are going as fast as you can, under all sorts of pressures in all the different circumstances on a golf course. It also enables you to hit the ground where the ball is with the right amount of divot in the centre of the face.

I don't think the Union members ever realize the point of the plane, as above; they merely say "well you can swing it in to impact on a different plane". And yes they are right. BUT THE CLUBFACE WILL NOT SQUARE IT SELF RELIABLY IF YOU DO.

Surely we have all seen students (on our video screens) who approach impact with the club from inside the plane line and on a turned shoulder plane. (I hope my Machinist union language is right). That is like the Golf Machine Lady in Oliver Heuler's piece above. They can hit nice slight draws up to about a 5 or 6 iron. Any club longer than this is a high righter. Why ? Because a driver cannot square itself when it approaches impact on (let's say) a 5 iron plane angle. It doesn't have sufficient time to do so. The golfer reacts and starts to over turn his body through impact (because he fears the right side of the course) then his arms swing out too far and you have yourself a slicer, losing more and more power with more and more effort on each swing. As Hogan wrote: "all right shoulder, and all wrong.."

Looked at from another point of view: I think you'll find that whenever the club points to the plane line (target line) at the top of the swing it ALWAYS flattens too much and then points too far outside the target line (laid off) in the downswing.

So, the very thing the Golf Machinists Union want: the club pointing at the target line, never happens in the dowswing for their students. A bad golfer then reacts and steepens the angle (so he can still hit the ball) by swinging down and to the left (deep divots and slices); while the better golfer will spin his body to move the bottom of the swing forward, so he can still hit the ball; (pitching might get tricky from bad lies under pressure (yips ?), inaccurate and wildly high and low drives - usually to the right and left respectively).

Oliver Heuler's plane picture above is great and Hank Haney gets results in his lessons that would amaze you all.

 

[6bee1dee]

ian, what the heck are you talking about?

Can you point to the plane line with your finger and trace it back and forth? Look at what your right forearm is doing. Congrats you are on plane to impact. Some make this plane thing way too tough- and it isn't Homer.

Clubs set themselves at address, from a wedge to a driver. Doesn't the ball location change? Think about it.

The picture of the Lady in the picture (Diane) is just one of several picture of her demonstrating various planes at address. Using just one is talking out of context.