pivot question

[Bronco Billy]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

The design of the Iron Byron has a rotor and the upper lever is a fixed attachment to that rotor very much like the blades of a helicopter. The only pendulum is from that fixed attachment to the club therefore disqualifying it from being modeled as a 'double pendulum'.

The term pendulum is defined thus...

"A body suspended from a fixed point that can swing freely back and forth under the action of gravity and commonly used to regulate movements (as of clockwork)"

A motor driving a lever is not a 'suspension from a fixed point' unlike that of the human arm hanging from a ballsocket. Although the left arm does not in itself work like a dual pendulum in its intraspective state it does however somewhat act like one under the influence of the left shoulder moving in a circle. This arguement invalidates your use of the iron byron as a realistic model for the human arm.

Where You From??????????? Mars............. You Better Inform Mandrin and the Rest of the World About This Double Pendulum Fallacy......

Mandrin's Model in Action....

 

[Bronco Billy]

Hey Future/Past.... Too Many Carbs Today?

you know a thread is ready to be finished when bronco billy starts posting...

.

 

[Deadly_Scope]

Where You From??????????? Mars............. You Better Inform Mandrin and the Rest of the World About This Double Pendulum Fallacy......

Thinking that the Iron Byron operates as a double Pendulum is just a really idiotic notion. It just shows me that you are a fool (as if the racist antics earlier didn't show me that anyways).

If you were even a fraction as intelligent as you think you are and I was somehow wrong on this (which I'm pretty sure that I am not), you would of delighted in pointing out the faults in my last post. So what does your failure to do this tell me about you?

 

[Bronco Billy]

I Guess That I'm a Fool.... Did I Get It Right?

Thinking that the Iron Byron operates as a double Pendulum is just a really idiotic notion. It just shows me that you are a fool (as if the racist antics earlier didn't show me that anyways).

If you were even a fraction as intelligent as you think you are and I was somehow wrong on this (which I'm pretty sure that I am not), you would of delighted in pointing out the faults in my last post. So what does your failure to do this tell me about you?

Also Check the Title of Chapter 2 of Search for the Perfect Swing...........

 

[Brian Manzella]

So....

Ya'll can all talk about CF, CP's, lever and whatevers, but...

ON EVERY 3D MACHINE IN THE WORLD, IN BOTH BASEBALL SWINGS AND GOLF SWINGS, THE MOST EFFICIENT SWINGS SNAP THAT LIVING HELL OUT OF THEIR KINETIC CHAINS.

Period.

So, nm, brocko, and the like, WHY ON EARTH HAS NO BASEBALLer or GOLFer figured out how to NOT SNAP THE CHAIN and hit it farther?????

 

[puttmad]

Got to agree with you there Brian eek: )

It's been proved that the longest baseball hitters all have one thing in common...their left arm slows and snaps the handle BACKWARDS, while their right hand is driving forwards....same with long distance fishing rod casting...you spear the butt forward and at the limit of its travel (when its speed is down to nearly zero) you pull back with the left hand and push forward with the right....

 

[Deadly_Scope]

Also Check the Title of Chapter 2 of Search for the Perfect Swing...........

The primary lever assembly is only somewhat like a double pendulum. The author used the double pendulum as a 2D model for how the club passes the left arm as it moves around in a circle - in that respect the double pendulum (with restraints of motion in place) will produce an accurate picture.

However in the 3D world the left arm acting as a double pendulum is not entirely true as left arm is off the plane of the secondary lever assembly (think left shoulder above plane - left hand onplane and draw a line). The left arm makes a conical shape into that plane as it is being accelerated longitudinally by the shoulder motion... a true pendulum would bring the left arm and clubhead inline with the rotating axis (although still not working like the Iron Byron).

This is why the shoulders (from an independent perspective of one another) should always be enscribing a circle parallel above or on the inclined plane so that its rotation provides a longitudinal acceleration with regards to the plane that the secondary lever assembly travels on.

This particular book is not the bible of golf by any means and its more a collection of thoughts as the understanding isn't very deep - but it does have some good points in it which are accurate - like as to why the left arm slows down.

 

[Bronco Billy]

How Does Iron Byron's Club Release Without the Arm Slowing Down?????

The primary lever assembly is only somewhat like a double pendulum. The author used the double pendulum as a 2D model for how the club passes the left arm as it moves around in a circle - in that respect the double pendulum (with restraints of motion in place) will produce an accurate picture.

However in the 3D world the left arm acting as a double pendulum is not entirely true as left arm is off the plane of the secondary lever assembly (think left shoulder above plane - left hand onplane and draw a line). The left arm makes a conical shape into that plane as it is being accelerated longitudinally by the shoulder motion... a true pendulum would bring the left arm and clubhead inline with the rotating axis (although still not working like the Iron Byron).

This is why the shoulders (from an independent perspective of one another) should always be enscribing a circle parallel above or on the inclined plane so that its rotation provides a longitudinal acceleration with regards to the plane that the secondary lever assembly travels on.

This particular book is not the bible of golf by any means and its more a collection of thoughts as the understanding isn't very deep - but it does have some good points in it which are accurate - like as to why the left arm slows down.

.

 

[Bigwill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZjhamFJiWo

I don't know if the arm is slowing down mechanincally, or being slowed down as a reaction to the forces generated, but it is slowing down in this video.

I also think that comparing the generation of forces in a human athletic move, to the generation of forces in a trebuchet or an Iron Byron machine are comparing apples to oranges, because those two represent, at best, the left arm/club swing. They don't have legs, hips, etc. to generate the forces, so they won't generate force in the same way.

 

[Bronco Billy]

No It's Not... The Arm is accelerating to a Predetermined Speed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZjhamFJiWo

I don't know if the arm is slowing down mechanincally, or being slowed down as a reaction to the forces generated, but it is slowing down in this video.

I also think that comparing the generation of forces in a human athletic move, to the generation of forces in a trebuchet or an Iron Byron machine are comparing apples to oranges, because those two represent, at best, the left arm/club swing. They don't have legs, hips, etc. to generate the forces, so they won't generate force in the same way.

I Have lots of video if iron byron, and believe Me the Arm is Not Slowing Down by Every Measurement and Analysis I Have Made.... Iron Byron has a free Hinge and a Human Golfer has a Powered Hinge......As Nm says apply as much Directed Force as you can to the Handle of the Club.... Thus a Directed Vectored Powered Hinge....... Have a Great Day With Your New Found Knowledge......

 

[Bigwill]

You're honestly telling me that you don't see the arm slowing down as the club passes it around impact during the swing shown at the 41 second mark of the video (it does during all of the swings, but this one is at full speed, so no one can claim that the film was slowed around impact)? Sure it's accelerating from the top. No one is discounting that, so I hope that isn't your argument. But it isn't accelerating through the entire swing. That arm slows as it gets perpendicular to the ground.

 

[nmgolfer]

Got to agree with you there Brian eek: )

It's been proved that the longest baseball hitters all have one thing in common...their left arm slows and snaps the handle BACKWARDS, while their right hand is driving forwards....same with long distance fishing rod casting...you spear the butt forward and at the limit of its travel (when its speed is down to nearly zero) you pull back with the left hand and push forward with the right....

Perhaps your post explains is why you didn't get Austin...

Lets take a step back. People claim the chain snaps in the best of swings because they've seen it on TV (3d machine). OK fine... Is TV proof (of anything)? I say no. I say there is a better way.

In 1974 in competition at age 64 Mike Austin let one go. It flew a whopping 515 yards and landed him straight in the history books. To this day golfers everywhere wonder: How did he do that? Here is the answer: By not swinging the club the way the vast majority do today.

In an interview in the 1990's Mike Austin was asked which pros used his action. Two and only two names were given. The diminutive brit Ian Woosnam (Woosy as his friends affectionately call him) and the now deceased golf great from down under Payne Stewart.

Have either been put on 3D TV? Did their "kinetic chain" snap and even if so is that action to be credited for their excellence? I say no. Austin would say NO.

On that other forum in the on-going (never-ending) infomercial thread, the host recently put up a link one of his lessons with the then decrepit (it was 1994 and Mike had suffered a stroke) Mike Austin. Listen closely Puttmad... In there Mike calls what you describe above "harpooning" and clearly states he's against it. That is not what he did.

Elsewhere instructors have advocated moving the butt of one's club in a line towards the ball. That is "harpooning" and its ineffective. Good swings are curvilinear. The only way you generated a moment (torque) about the center of gravity of the club, which is by the way what causes it to "release" , is by changing the direction the butt of the club is moving. A curve is defined by constant change in direction. Its that curvilinear path of ones hands (the kinematics) that is the key to unlocking great and effortLESS distance. This is what Mike intuitively (and probably scientifically too) knew and tried to teach. Some got it: Dunaway, Shauger... others did not.

One day someone will take Woosnam's and Stewart's place on the stage and when he/she does, look out Tiger. When he/she does, prepare yourselve to accept the truth.

 

[nmgolfer]

You know when someone doesn't argue the point it usually means they know they are failing in the debate. You don't even make any attempt to refute despite me rewriting the wording so it makes no reference to the fictious 'centrifugal' force whatsoever...

My last post was dead on the money.

Was I not clear?

The bible says: cast not pearls before swine. I don't like your attitude and therefore elect not to engage in a discussion (let alone argue) with you. As for you last sentence, I'm happy for you that are so pleased with yourself.

 

[nmgolfer]

you know a thread is ready to be finished when bronco billy starts posting...

What a kind thing to say... You're a real loving person... NOT!

 

[nmgolfer]

One more thing... on that same video mentioned above (sorry but for obvious reasons, I can't post the link, you'll have to find it yourself), starting about 7 minutes in, Austin talks about left shoulder action. Done his way... the better way, its UP not around.

 

[Bronco Billy]

The Problem with the Kinetic Chain is that it is Ass Backwards.....

It's the Cart Before the Horse..... "Golfers" are Trying to Mimic the Movements(Kinetic Chain) of Touring Pros thinking they will get the same Results....The "Golfers" have NO damn Idea why the Touring Pros are Doing these Movements(Kinetic Chain) All They know is that when the Touring Pros make these Moves the Pros Get Results...... So therefore They("The Golfers") should also get the same Pro Shots.... And They Don't.......

The Pros have Educated Hands and they are Applying Forces to the Handle(Hinge) of a Club in a Way that directs the Club to travel and release very similar to Iron Byron's Forward Swing....... All of the Pros Body Contortions(Kinetic Chain) are Performed to Make the Golf club mimic Iron Byrons forward Swing.....Have a Great Day With Your New Found Knowledge.....

 

[puttmad]

....

Perhaps your post explains is why you didn't get Austin...

Lets take a step back. People claim the chain snaps in the best of swings because they've seen it on TV (3d machine). OK fine... Is TV proof (of anything)? I say no. I say there is a better way.

In 1974 in competition at age 64 Mike Austin let one go. It flew a whopping 515 yards and landed him straight in the history books. To this day golfers everywhere wonder: How did he do that? Here is the answer: By not swinging the club the way the vast majority do today.

In an interview in the 1990's Mike Austin was asked which pros used his action. Two and only two names were given. The diminutive brit Ian Woosnam (Woosy as his friends affectionately call him) and the now deceased golf great from down under Payne Stewart.

Have either been put on 3D TV? Did their "kinetic chain" snap and even if so is that action to be credited for their excellence? I say no. Austin would say NO.

On that other forum in the on-going (never-ending) infomercial thread, the host recently put up a link one of his lessons with the then decrepit (it was 1994 and Mike had suffered a stroke) Mike Austin. Listen closely Puttmad... In there Mike calls what you describe above "harpooning" and clearly states he's against it. That is not what he did.

Elsewhere instructors have advocated moving the butt of one's club in a line towards the ball. That is "harpooning" and its ineffective. Good swings are curvilinear. The only way you generated a moment (torque) about the center of gravity of the club, which is by the way what causes it to "release" , is by changing the direction the butt of the club is moving. A curve is defined by constant change in direction. Its that curvilinear path of ones hands (the kinematics) that is the key to unlocking great and effortLESS distance. This is what Mike intuitively (and probably scientifically too) knew and tried to teach. Some got it: Dunaway, Shauger... others did not.

One day someone will take Woosnam's and Stewart's place on the stage and when he/she does, look out Tiger. When he/she does, prepare yourselve to accept the truth.

nm,
Where did I state that I use either motions as I described?...or for that matter even recommend them for the golf swing?....
As for "that's why you didn't get Austin"....didn't I?.... .

 

[Bronco Billy]

The Secret of the Perfect Release........

Good swings are curvilinear. The only way you generated a moment (torque) about the center of gravity of the club, which is by the way what causes it to "release" , is by changing the direction the butt of the club is moving. A curve is defined by constant change in direction. Its that curvilinear path of ones hands (the kinematics) that is the key to unlocking great and effortLESS distance.

Thanks nm..... I've Been Searching for this GOLDEN INFORMATION for Years.....It is All Crystal Clear Now That the Rain Has Gone....... This is Why Iron Byron(The Most Efficient Swinger in the World) Releases Perfectly EveryTime..... All a Human Golfer Has to Do is Educate His Hands to Apply Force to the Handle of the Club in the Exact Swing Plane as Iron Byron(which By the Way is Defined by the Human Golfers Arm) and the Golf Club Will Release Perfectly..... Thanks Again and I am Going to Have a Great Day with My New Found Golden Knowledge......

 

[Brian Manzella]

Enough!

I have had it.

You have one "so called" math guy, nm, who is promoting a method from Mike Austin, who when he was alive had several folks on this forum take lessons from.

More than a couple of those folks, one at least a teaching professional himself, also took lessons from me and declared me the clearly better teacher.

Now I like Mr. Austin's swing, have reviewed it on this forum, read his book, thought it was better than most, and put it to bed.

After this post, he will be back on the library shelf.

We don't discuss other teachers on this site unless the are "public domain" world "famous," and even then, rarely.

Why?

I am tire of some of them, and their henchman using THIS site, THE #1 Alexa ranked NAMED instructor site on the web, as ADVERTISING!

Then we have Broco Billy promoting this other guy and his "method."

This is going to stop right here and now.

Nm, you apparently have no idea what a 3d machine—especially a really good one—is, or is capable of doing.

NO EARTHLY IDEA.

None.

Go buy one, or go take a lesson from someone who has one.

When Damon Lucas gets his $150,000 one, hopefully soon, will post up so much data, it will rock the golf world. The data is there, but no one is posting it up. We will.

This site is about to go to its 3.0 version, real soon, and I will work it much more often and harder, and these goofy threads, all awash with folks who have their heads in the sand, will never see the light of day.

BM

 

[jeffgladchun]

I have had it.

You have one "so called" math guy, nm, who is promoting a method from Mike Austin, who when he was alive had several folks on this forum take lessons from.

More than a couple of those folks, one at least a teaching professional himself, also took lessons from me and declared me the clearly better teacher.

Now I like Mr. Austin's swing, have reviewed it on this forum, read his book, thought it was better than most, and put it to bed.

After this post, he will be back on the library shelf.

We don't discuss other teachers on this site unless the are "public domain" world "famous," and even then, rarely.

Why?

I am tire of some of them, and their henchman using THIS site, THE #1 Alexa ranked NAMED instructor site on the web, as ADVERTISING!

Then we have Broco Billy promoting this other guy and his "method."

This is going to stop right here and now.

Nm, you apparently have no idea what a 3d machine—especially a really good one—is, or is capable of doing.

NO EARTHLY IDEA.

None.

Go buy one, or go take a lesson from someone who has one.

When Damon Lucas gets his $150,000 one, hopefully soon, will post up so much data, it will rock the golf world. The data is there, but no one is posting it up. We will.

This site is about to go to its 3.0 version, real soon, and I will work it much more often and harder, and these goofy threads, all awash with folks who have their heads in the sand, will never see the light of day.

BM

Brian, I absolutely cannot wait.

Please come back to Ann Arbor this year, I missed you last time!