Professional shallowing on plane move at transition / or The Twirl

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Keefer

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There's a shallowing / flattening move (I call the "Pro" move) in the transition. This move has been an elusive epiphany for most hackers. It seems one way of achieving this shallowing is to make a quarter turn counter clockwise with the club in the right hand only, then add your left hand to get the shaft on plane. Another way is to add more spine tilt at address to build the shallowing / on plane in at the start.

I posted a video of a Touring Pro who explained this move, but the gatekeepers took exception, so my explanation of this shallowing / on plane move will have to do.

My question is does anyone do this move and is it a real deal epiphany? I would think for slicers the automatic adding of more tilt at address would work better than a counter clockwise move (twirl) in the transition.

Again, this "Pro" flattening move that is done at transition has always been a mystery for most golfers.
 
gmbtempe

gmbtempe

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Keefer said:
There's a shallowing / flattening move (I call the "Pro" move) in the transition. This move has been an elusive epiphany for most hackers. It seems one way of achieving this shallowing is to make a quarter turn counter clockwise with the club in the right hand only, then add your left hand to get the shaft on plane. Another way is to add more spine tilt at address to build the shallowing / on plane in at the start.

I posted a video of a Touring Pro who explained this move, but the gatekeepers took exception, so my explanation of this shallowing / on plane move will have to do.

My question is does anyone do this move and is it a real deal epiphany? I would think for slicers the automatic adding of more tilt at address would work better than a counter clockwise move (twirl) in the transition.

Again, this "Pro" flattening move that is done at transition has always been a mystery for most golfers.
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Watch a pro named Brandon De Jonge, he has that move.
 
mgranato

mgranato

New
Many discussions in the past 18 months about shallowing/laying off/flattening/preparing the club into, during, and out of the transition. Lots of material in the archives. There might be some subject fatigue on this one.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
The best what I discovered, the best because it's a subconscious-friendly motion, is to let the downswing plane be over the backswing one. It results with an OTT from inside delivery. Hands over while sweetspot shallowing to the EEP. Power plus on-plane path.
No conscious twirls or another odd moves necessary.

Cheers
 
K

Keefer

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gmbtempe said:
Watch a pro named Brandon De Jonge, he has that move.
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I will. I've received some PM's regarding links to what I'm talking about, so there is some interest on this subject.

I might have described the manual move of twirling the club wrong. Depending which way you look at it, it could be a counter clockwise move or clockwise.

If you place the grip solely in your right hand and bring it up to and rest it on your shoulder with your palm facing up and allow the weight to be on the fleshy part of the index finger. Now just twirl it a quarter turn or so with your hand and watch how much the club changes it's plane to a more shallow angle. Now add your left hand to the grip.

The other way is to add more spine tilt at address.
 
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K

Keefer

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mgranato said:
Many discussions in the past 18 months about shallowing/laying off/flattening/preparing the club into, during, and out of the transition. Lots of material in the archives. There might be some subject fatigue on this one.
Click to expand...

Hasn't just about everything been discussed too much? This is a unique move that I've not seen discussed before. Anyone who is too steep in transition should take a look at this move.

Like I've said it's an elusive move for most hackers. Maybe not anymore.
 
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jbrunk

New
I don't think this move, on its own is the deal. I think it's more important to learn how to separate the arms from the body in the ds.
 
K

Keefer

New
jbrunk said:
I don't think this move, on its own is the deal. I think it's more important to learn how to separate the arms from the body in the ds.
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There is no doubt this twirl move shallows the club. If you do it with just your right hand you'll see the club move about a foot onto a different (shallower) plane. Really a drastic and surprising result for such a small twirl of the club.

The other way is to add more spine tilt at address with a tilt and turn of your head to the right. The key is to hold the tilt thru impact to maintain the shallow more on plane swing.
 
johnnymarlboro

johnnymarlboro

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Seems like you're over thinking it. The only things being discussed on the video in question are laying it off/shallowing and squaring the face with the right hand. There's nothing unique about it. The "magic move" of golf is properly shallowing the club early while squaring the face? Gee, what a great secret. Why didn't someone think of this sooner. :rolleyes:

If you really want to know more about "the twirl" maybe you ought to go to THEIR website and ask on THEIR forum.
 
G

Gravedigga

New
My big epiphany came with a slight shallowing of the path combined with early carry. Still hard for me to do, but it's definitely the main focus of my practice right now.
 
jimmyt

jimmyt

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Keefer said:
I will. I've received some PM's regarding links to what I'm talking about, so there is some interest on this subject.

I might have described the manual move of twirling the club wrong. Depending which way you look at it, it could be a counter clockwise move or clockwise.

If you place the grip solely in your right hand and bring it up to and rest it on your shoulder with your palm facing up and allow the weight to be on the fleshy part of the index finger. Now just twirl it a quarter turn or so with your hand and watch how much the club changes it's plane to a more shallow angle. Now add your left hand to the grip.

The other way is to add more spine tilt at address.
Click to expand...


What you describe would move the club in a clockwise direction, not the counter clockwise move you first suggested. The back porch video that Brian made described that first critical shallowing move.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
proper path and a not too open clubface combined with a proper body move on the downswing CREATES a proper shallowing move...also theamount you shallow out will vary based on the downswing plane you use. Sergio more than David Toms perse.

Shallowing is a result of many other things done right, kind of like getting to a balanced finish.
 
jimmyt

jimmyt

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Jim Kobylinski said:
proper path and a not too open clubface combined with a proper body move on the downswing CREATES a proper shallowing move...also theamount you shallow out will vary based on the downswing plane you use. Sergio more than David Toms perse.

Shallowing is a result of many other things done right, kind of like getting to a balanced finish.
Click to expand...



great post Jim
 
E

ej20

New
Keefer said:
I will. I've received some PM's regarding links to what I'm talking about, so there is some interest on this subject.

I might have described the manual move of twirling the club wrong. Depending which way you look at it, it could be a counter clockwise move or clockwise.

If you place the grip solely in your right hand and bring it up to and rest it on your shoulder with your palm facing up and allow the weight to be on the fleshy part of the index finger. Now just twirl it a quarter turn or so with your hand and watch how much the club changes it's plane to a more shallow angle. Now add your left hand to the grip.

The other way is to add more spine tilt at address.
Click to expand...
This shallowing move in transition to get the club on plane or laid off from an across the line position at the top has been around since the days of Ben Hogan.Some pros call it re-routing.There are many theories and some are downright kooky.

All I can say is the "twirl" is not really working for Elkington.He has always had a steep shaft in transition with full swings.Nothing has changed today despite the so called twirl he uses.

In my opinion,the only thing that will significantly flatten the club is clockwise rotation of the left forearm.Whatever else you do with your right hand or any other part of the body that does not rotate your left forearm clockwise,the club will not flatten period.
 
B

bluebird

New
ej20 said:
This shallowing move in transition to get the club on plane or laid off from an across the line position at the top has been around since the days of Ben Hogan.Some pros call it re-routing.There are many theories and some are downright kooky.

All I can say is the "twirl" is not really working for Elkington.He has always had a steep shaft in transition with full swings.Nothing has changed today despite the so called twirl he uses.

In my opinion,the only thing that will significantly flatten the club is clockwise rotation of the left forearm.Whatever else you do with your right hand or any other part of the body that does not rotate your left forearm clockwise,the club will not flatten period.
Click to expand...


Question. Clockwise from the elbow's perspective or from the hand's perspective?
 
K

Keefer

New
johnnymarlboro said:
Seems like you're over thinking it. The only things being discussed on the video in question are laying it off/shallowing and squaring the face with the right hand. There's nothing unique about it. The "magic move" of golf is properly shallowing the club early while squaring the face? Gee, what a great secret. Why didn't someone think of this sooner. :rolleyes:

If you really want to know more about "the twirl" maybe you ought to go to THEIR website and ask on THEIR forum.
Click to expand...

Actually that move (shallowing the club back on plane) is very unique. Why? Because most amateurs have no idea how to shallow the club and get it back on plane early in the swing.

Despite all the supposed discussion on this issue most have no idea how to do it. As one person who PM'd me said all he has ever heard is that "it just happens."

Is it possible to only subscribe to issues of Golf Magazine that features a Brian Manzella article about the swing? I mean I wouldn't want to be mislead by all the other top 99 teachers in the country and their misinformation, right?

When a PGA Touring Pro like Steve Elkington describes how he swings the club I find that interesting. And when he gives a detailed description on how he shallows the club back on plane, despite the attempts to dismiss him outright, many find that interesting.

Didn't know Elkington had a web-site. I found his videos by accident and found the info interesting. That's it, no hidden agenda. Thought it would make for an interesting discussion and it did despite attempts to stifle it.

Sometimes I feel like I'm an atheist in a group full of Scientologists. :)
 
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Keefer

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BTW. I've been out of action due to an elbow injury for that last several months, so I haven't tried the Twirl yet. Although I haven't tried it yet, for me I'm thinking the added axis tilt with more head tilt may be easier for me to achieve the shallowing out of the down-swing.
 
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