This is what I meant about the curvature of the line being dependend on the speeds.
questions from me about the D-plane (and new fun facts by Brian Manzella on p.3)
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This is what I meant about the curvature of the line being dependend on the speeds.
natep
New
The d-plane describes the direction of every ball ever hit in the history of golf. It's not a theory, it's irrefutable fact of how impact influences direction. (except for shanks, tops, and other mis-hits)
You can hit draws, hooks, fades and slices with any number of alignments, but the only way to hit a straight ball is to have the clubface square to the path at impact.
The d-plane explains the ballflight of all of these possiblities.
You can hit draws, hooks, fades and slices with any number of alignments, but the only way to hit a straight ball is to have the clubface square to the path at impact.
The d-plane explains the ballflight of all of these possiblities.
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
OK....we need to start here:
This illustration below is NOT what happens in a real golf swing.
Not even close.
But, in this thread, without maybe realizing it, people think it does:
This illustration below is NOT what happens in a real golf swing.
Not even close.
But, in this thread, without maybe realizing it, people think it does:
My current understanding (maybe I've misunderstood it and would be happy to be corrected) of the D-plane is such that it exists only within the impact interval and that the last part of the impact interval (ie from the point of maximum deformation until separation) is relatively unimportant. This means that the time period for the existance of the D-plane is clearly less than half a millisecond AND variable, dependent on the force being applied to the ball and the equipment being used. This does not change the required alignments during the impact interval but may change the required alignments pre-impact. http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/14166-finally-some-actual-science.html
As far as I can gather from the various threads all concernign D-plane is that noone really knows yet EXACTLY to what degree each of the variables influence what D-plane you're going to produce and therefore what ball flight you're going to get, not to mention how all the variables interact with each other.
So until someone works that out, there is no way to determine exactly how to achieve those alignments and as such we will continue to be dependent on a process of trial and error. As such everyone will need to use Trackman or similar to gather enough information to know what's right for each individual in order to achieve those alignments during the impact interval. I'm going to have to buy one now and do a lot of experimenting.
As far as I can gather from the various threads all concernign D-plane is that noone really knows yet EXACTLY to what degree each of the variables influence what D-plane you're going to produce and therefore what ball flight you're going to get, not to mention how all the variables interact with each other.
So until someone works that out, there is no way to determine exactly how to achieve those alignments and as such we will continue to be dependent on a process of trial and error. As such everyone will need to use Trackman or similar to gather enough information to know what's right for each individual in order to achieve those alignments during the impact interval. I'm going to have to buy one now and do a lot of experimenting.
natep
New
This illustration below is NOT what happens in a real golf swing.
Not even close.
But, in this thread, without maybe realizing it, people think it does:
Holy S**T!
That would be me then because that picture looks right to me.
What's wrong with it?
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Matt Bryda
New
For starters,
Chocolate cake size divots and draw or hook
Matt
IRL the angle of approach is MUCH steeper and then flattens WAY out through impact. Like the first half of a U shape.
S
SteveT
Guest
Do you still cling to fully discredited TGM "physics" like the erroneous "endless belt effect"?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Things are wrong in the "geometry of the circle"
The left shoulder is moving a BUNCH from "halfway down" until impact.
The commonly drawn illustration has no such left shoulder movement.
This movement is forward, then upward and backward.
The up and back also move the shoulder away from the 2-D surface.
The left wrist is uncocking out of the plane of the 2-D surface.
The hands are moving inward pre-impact after moving upward and outward just prior to that.
The shaft bows down a bunch at impact, and was bending backward and then forward as well.
The left arm changes shape.
......
I could go on....but I won't waste anymore of anyone's time.
......
Just remember this, most good shots are hit with MORE forward lean (in degrees) then DOWARD (in degrees).
Ho-hum.
The left shoulder is moving a BUNCH from "halfway down" until impact.
The commonly drawn illustration has no such left shoulder movement.
This movement is forward, then upward and backward.
The up and back also move the shoulder away from the 2-D surface.
The left wrist is uncocking out of the plane of the 2-D surface.
The hands are moving inward pre-impact after moving upward and outward just prior to that.
The shaft bows down a bunch at impact, and was bending backward and then forward as well.
The left arm changes shape.
......
I could go on....but I won't waste anymore of anyone's time.
......
Just remember this, most good shots are hit with MORE forward lean (in degrees) then DOWARD (in degrees).
Ho-hum.
mjstrong
New
This is an example of what Claude Harmon used to call "pearls." Nuggets of useable information that can be very important.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
As you begin to over do it, you'll tend to leave the face open.
More questions, somewhat d-plane related:
How much,if any, does the AoA and forward shaft lean combination(s) affect the distance in an iron shot?
For instance how will a 90mph 5 iron with 10 degrees of forward shaft lean and -5 AoA distance compare to a 90 mph 5 iron with 5 degrees forward shaft lean and 0 AoA?
What's the optimum AoA/forward shaft lean (dynamic loft) for a 5 iron compared to club head speed, using the same ball type?
How much,if any, does the AoA and forward shaft lean combination(s) affect the distance in an iron shot?
For instance how will a 90mph 5 iron with 10 degrees of forward shaft lean and -5 AoA distance compare to a 90 mph 5 iron with 5 degrees forward shaft lean and 0 AoA?
What's the optimum AoA/forward shaft lean (dynamic loft) for a 5 iron compared to club head speed, using the same ball type?
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From my experience, you really shouldn't assume either more than the other because everybody is different. If I were to guess though, I'd say higher handicaps would end up more right as they are trying to find loft, and more advanced players would possibly hook the ball more. Again though, there really shouldn't be any assumptions, especially as a teacher.
James Marshall (Hogan1953)
New member
The left shoulder: More up and less back for draws and higher shots and less up and more back for straigher shots and fades?
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