Brian Manzella
Administrator
All I know is the most overrated team in the country is MeeeSheeeCan't.
#2 is fUSC
#2 is fUSC
S. E. C.
- Thread starter Jared Willerson
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mgranato
New
If UM beat Bama, I'd have no problem with a Northwestern fan talking all the smack he wanted about overrated this or that. Wouldn't like it, definitely wouldn't agree with it, but to the victor goes the spoils. And anytime two conference heavies square off, there's a rooting interest of us vs. them.
You can define contributing however you like, but if a team straps it on and goes out to take their best shot, I'm good with that. The year of LSU's last title, UK beat them in double OT. So the weak do occasionally contribute. But let's also not forget that other conferences contribute to our cause as well. That same year, LSU needed a lot of help and all the able conferences obliged on that last Saturday. Same for Bama last year.
It takes a village to get 6 in a row. And since you listen to Finebaum, you know our village has plenty of idiots.
You can define contributing however you like, but if a team straps it on and goes out to take their best shot, I'm good with that. The year of LSU's last title, UK beat them in double OT. So the weak do occasionally contribute. But let's also not forget that other conferences contribute to our cause as well. That same year, LSU needed a lot of help and all the able conferences obliged on that last Saturday. Same for Bama last year.
It takes a village to get 6 in a row. And since you listen to Finebaum, you know our village has plenty of idiots.
magicmarker
New
The "non-contributors" contribute more than you are giving them credit for.
Proverbs 27:17
As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
Proverbs 27:17
As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
Lindsey Newman
New
I've never been one to get into the whole SEC vs Big 10 comparison, there isn't one to be made as it's not an even recruiting base to say the least.
The big shift happened when schools in the south started to allow spring football. Not one current state in which a Big 10 school resides allows spring ball - NOT ONE. 20 extra days a year equals 80 (in high school alone) extra full organized practices. That is huge! Until these states allow spring ball and organized winter conditioning they will always be behind the eight ball. Maybe it's an excuse, but it's real and has an enormous impact on skill sets. It's no different than playing golf in Florida year round or playing 6 months a year in the north.
The big shift happened when schools in the south started to allow spring football. Not one current state in which a Big 10 school resides allows spring ball - NOT ONE. 20 extra days a year equals 80 (in high school alone) extra full organized practices. That is huge! Until these states allow spring ball and organized winter conditioning they will always be behind the eight ball. Maybe it's an excuse, but it's real and has an enormous impact on skill sets. It's no different than playing golf in Florida year round or playing 6 months a year in the north.
mgranato
New
I grew up in SoFlo, and we had spring ball back in then (early 80's). What's the reasoning behind not having spring ball?
Lindsey Newman
New
Just some examples of "their" explanations-
PA
"We're still very much an association that believes in having kids participate in as many sports as they possibly can, giving them opportunities to be a three-sport athlete if they want," PIAA assistant executive director Melissa Mertz said
Ohio
"Our organization - the OHSAA - has to do what's most likely to be what's best for 22 or 24 sports and not just one," OHSAA assistant commissioner Henry Zaborniak said.
In reality, there is no excuse and even with the pressure being applied from every angle these folks will not budge. This is what happens when you have academic first folks running athletic associations at the state level. In each of the states where the Big 10 schools reside, these guys have banded together to prevent any progress towards organized off season practices. It absolutely ludacris.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
All I know is this:
The big10 got exposed in those BCS games.
The same thing would have happened to the pac10/12/??
The big10 got exposed in those BCS games.
The same thing would have happened to the pac10/12/??
Lindsey Newman
New
Very observant. You must have used a Casio and slow-mo to figure that out.
mgranato
New
That about says it all.
gmbtempe
New
They have really good talent down south, no doubt about that, but lets be honest here, Bama always has had talent. The real reason though is the fact that the SEC signs one FULL class more of players more than most conferences, especially the Pac 12 and Big 10. The Big 12 has a bit of grey area. Here from the site oversigning.com If you have a pool of 15-20 more kids to chose from even the middle teams, like South Carolina, you have a huge advantage. Florida president Jeremy Foley led changes to the rules when Ole Miss signed 38 pl;ayers a few years ago, and most consider him a pariah, Saban was very critical of that move because he knows its the big advantage. Florida is the one school the past 7-8 years who has not oversigned, what has happened? They slowly slid back.
The SEC is VERY good, but lets call a spade a spade, they have a huge built in advantage and its not just a population shift.
According to website Oversigning.com and its informative Twitter account, @TheMarchTo85, Alabama had signed 133 players since 2008, while Michigan signed 118. It's not the only reason -- but it's certainly part of the reason -- why a dominant SEC team such as Alabama has so much depth. Oversigning is when schools give out more scholarships than the 85 they are permitted to have by the start of each season, and then they run off players or yank offers from recruits to hit the roster total. With the 2012 recruiting class, the SEC for the first time capped its scholarship limit for each year at 25, something the Big Ten has done and monitored for years.
gmbtempe
New
LSU's ship has two men too many, so Elliott Porter walks the plank - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF Blog - Yahoo! Sports
It's standard operating procedure, and players usually take their grayshirt without (public) complaint. It's only when the rare snub speaks up that we're reminded how fundamentally slimy the process really is. LSU offensive lineman Elliott Porter, effectively cut from the roster Tuesday when all 27 Tiger signees showed up for the start of training camp in good legal and academic standing, is one of the latter group:
It's standard operating procedure, and players usually take their grayshirt without (public) complaint. It's only when the rare snub speaks up that we're reminded how fundamentally slimy the process really is. LSU offensive lineman Elliott Porter, effectively cut from the roster Tuesday when all 27 Tiger signees showed up for the start of training camp in good legal and academic standing, is one of the latter group:
mgranato
New
There is no such thing as a 4 year scholarship. Each scholarship is renewed on a yearly basis and can not be renewed for any number of reasons.
All of these recruits are aware of how many spots a team has, yet they are willing to roll the dice to become one of the final roster winners. These players are not being fooled in any way. They want to be on one of these rosters.
There is typically a relatively high turnover rate each year for the large football programs due to a variety of reasons. These coaches know that and are playing the numbers for it.
Florida can do whatever it wants, but they have won 2 NC in the past 6 years. This has not been hurting them. Their problems stem from the 2 guys who have been running the program the past couple years.
All of these recruits are aware of how many spots a team has, yet they are willing to roll the dice to become one of the final roster winners. These players are not being fooled in any way. They want to be on one of these rosters.
There is typically a relatively high turnover rate each year for the large football programs due to a variety of reasons. These coaches know that and are playing the numbers for it.
Florida can do whatever it wants, but they have won 2 NC in the past 6 years. This has not been hurting them. Their problems stem from the 2 guys who have been running the program the past couple years.
gmbtempe
New
Yea, I am sure its just coincidence with Florida, right now they have 30 less players than Bama, and LSU, I just read an article today.
Your right, these kids should look up the scholarship deals, look at how many they have oversigned and figure things out. I know I would if it was my kid. You cant believe everything a coach who sits in your living room tells you, you gotta check out if they are telling the truth (man thats sad isnt it?).
Its still an advantage, they are losing it with the new rules they just put in place, so I expect it to even out a touch in about 3-4 years.
gmbtempe
New
Some schools though are doing just that, and many schools do not cut kids and its an implied for year deal.
Some in Big Ten offering 4-year scholarships - ESPN
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
oversigning.com really opened my eyes to how nasty big time college sports have become. As a teacher and coach, I see both sides but asking a 17 year old kid to think like a seasoned business professional puts the student athlete at a disadvantage.
Needing to win is one thing, using people, most of them poor and black, implies a lack of morality on the part of big time coaches, university presidents and belies what college athletics should be about. I will watch games with a little less respect for what is going on in the near future.
Needing to win is one thing, using people, most of them poor and black, implies a lack of morality on the part of big time coaches, university presidents and belies what college athletics should be about. I will watch games with a little less respect for what is going on in the near future.
gmbtempe
New
Not everyone though is like that, the Pac 12/Big 10 have more rules in place so this practice does not happen, the ACC is in the middle. The Big 12 is next. Its a free for all in the SEC, nothing beats Ole Miss signing 38 one year.
I read an article a few years back, might have been on oversigning.com as well that in the the preceding decade Alabama has had to give 3 permanent medical scholarships for players that got hurt and could never play again, in Saban's first 3 years the number was 10. Maybe it was just some bad luck, two of the players transferred and played at D2 schools so maybe they were not quite as hurt as Bama said.
I have no problem saying the SEC rules, but they ought to acknowledge the playing field has been tilted dramatically the past decade or so since this practice became common place.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
When I played baseball in college I just signed the form the two years I played and handed it to the registrar. My scholarship was for 50 percent. No one ever got cut from their scholarship unless they were kicked off or flunked out.
I can't imagine taking a dream away from a kid because I wanted to sign as many as I could. I can see where it builds depth and a competitive atmosphere but college is about an education....or should be anyway.
I can't imagine taking a dream away from a kid because I wanted to sign as many as I could. I can see where it builds depth and a competitive atmosphere but college is about an education....or should be anyway.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
I never understood UGA in the top 10. They are no that good but should win the east.
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