Sergio Garcia & The Tumble

Status
Not open for further replies.
lia41985

lia41985

New member
Brian Manzella said:
Do not try to tilt until the shaft is near vertical for the last time pre-impact.
Click to expand...
Perfection:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BovlIoYhOZg?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BovlIoYhOZg?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
 
J

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Lindsey Newman said:
My thoughts on tumble...

IMHO-Every good golf swing (relative) has some form of tumble.

A very important thing to always remember is that the shaft and the clubface are married. I say this only because when you steepen the shaft you are also squaring the face (ideally).

like a car (hands/arms) pulling a trailor (shaft/clubhead) you must initially pull the trilior in the correct direction so when the trailor comes unhitched (as we have learned in this forum) it continues in the right direction

Most folks never get to expirience tumble. Why? Horizontal, out or high hand path in the downswing.

If your left arm is not as vertical as possible at last parallel and you try to tumble you will hit some super steep shots or skanks. So the first key is to have a good hand path.

If you look at the most envied swings, you will typically see super vert hand paths coming down that allow the player to steepen the shaft/face combination as much as they want. They have zero concerns of skanking it or hitting it steep. They typically have a more neutral grip so the shaft can tumble as much as they want without fear of a hook. Players with good hand paths have a few of options on how they tumble the shaft/clubface combo.

Option 1 - Hogan - ish, Sergio - they have a model or low left arm position at the top and a great closed counterfall transition which puts them WAY DOWN close to the original shaft plane LINE early. From there this type of player uses both hands and right shoulder to steepen the shaft back into the ball while also squaring the face.

Option 2 -Nicklausian - Watson - They have a higher left arm position at the top. Same great counterfall, but because of the higher position at the top, they never get the shaft as close to the original shaft plane LINE. Therefore they cannot hit as much with the right shoulder and instead soley use the down pressure from the arms to steppen/tumble the shaft.

You also have a varient of strong grip players like a Duval and maybe even Azinger who have really only one option. They swing the clubhead out or steepen (kind of) with only the right shoulder. Why? because the strong grip does not allow them to truly steepen the shaft. They would be prone to pull hook if they used a model steepening action.


So what are the keys IMO?

Have a grip that allow you to steepen the shaft without fear of hitting it left.

have an incredible (maybe feeling closed) counterfall transition that keeps the hand path inside and a left arm more vertical

Then if you don't tumble/steepen the shaft you"ll hit the fattest open faced, hook shots ever.

No matter what - get into a position with your counterfall that allows you to HAVE to steepen the shaft!

For those of you that find this reply redundant, accept my apologies.
Click to expand...

I really got a lot out of this post. Very good information.

Thanks.
 
S

siksta

New
So like option #1 you can have low arms or low hands and still tumble at the last second to steepen the shaft but you better have the guns at the bottom. Option 2 is what i see all my students do its a little harder to time but what you see at most ranges long flowing type swing.
 
J

jbrunk

New
As I practice more of my NHA lesson I have noticed that I am developing more drop than before. It also feels like my arms are ‘trying to find the plane’ as they drop. The best I can describe is a slight carry, followed by the club wiggling (it feels like it is moving in a figure S from the top) as it drops vertically to last parallel before I start turning. It sounds like some of the movement I have been reading about in this thread, and it is producing lasers for the most part.

Sounds weird, but I think I am on to something.
 
S

spktho

New
jbrunk said:
As I practice more of my NHA lesson I have noticed that I am developing more drop than before. It also feels like my arms are ‘trying to find the plane’ as they drop. The best I can describe is a slight carry, followed by the club wiggling (it feels like it is moving in a figure S from the top) as it drops vertically to last parallel before I start turning. It sounds like some of the movement I have been reading about in this thread, and it is producing lasers for the most part.

Sounds weird, but I think I am on to something.
Click to expand...

I have some of the same feels as well. To add another, I have to swing the hands what feels like low and real close to the left hip through and past impact or else the ball goes left.
 
S

ScottRob

New
Kevin Shields said:
Those without a lot of tricep or wrist strength might have to lay the club off to give the tumble a running start so to speak. Kids who learn to do this early like Fowler and Garcia lay it off. It its something you pick up as a fix to underplane i would suggest on line or slightly cross the line to acheive down hand path and a vert left arm.
Click to expand...


Kevin I am mining this thread a bit. Tumble is starting to get my attention. I have been so far underplane for so long that I may have hit the back of the ball for the first time...ever! I am working hard to tumble the club towards the ball. I also have a better sense of what swinging left feels like.

How does laying the club off give the tumble a running start?
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
ScottRob said:
Kevin I am mining this thread a bit. Tumble is starting to get my attention. I have been so far underplane for so long that I may have hit the back of the ball for the first time...ever! I am working hard to tumble the club towards the ball. I also have a better sense of what swinging left feels like.

How does laying the club off give the tumble a running start?
Click to expand...

If you are going to rotate with a flat "eventual plane," and steep hands, you might "over tumble." Laying it off gives you longer to go.

Got it?
 
S

ScottRob

New
So you have more tumbling to do, and therefore are less likely to over do it? When I rotate the left arm flying wedge as you suggest in NHA2 I absolutely have to tumble it, when I get the shaft "laid-off" and tumble I have hit some serious pull draws that go for ever. Do I have it?:confused:
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
ScottRob said:
So you have more tumbling to do, and therefore are less likely to over do it? When I rotate the left arm flying wedge as you suggest in NHA2 I absolutely have to tumble it, when I get the shaft "laid-off" and tumble I have hit some serious pull draws that go for ever. Do I have it?:confused:
Click to expand...

Face is closed or hand path is still too "out". NHA2 requires some late tilting to keep the face open for the fade.
 
S

ScottRob

New
Hard to believe that my hand path is too far out!:eek:But I can sense the difference between the dead straight as good as I can hit shots and the pull draw. This is going to sound goofy but it really feels like I am closing the face really hard through the ball on the good ones. I almost expect to see it go left,but damned if it does not go straight. Years of standing the handle up in an effort not to hit it super left! :mad:There is a chance that my best golf is still ahead of me! :D

Best carry + tumble drill, hurdle the ball? Thank you for your time.
 
jimmyt

jimmyt

New
Can someOne refresh my memory and give me a description of the "Tumble" once again.

Also how does it differ from " The Carry"?

Thanks,

Jimmy T
 
lia41985

lia41985

New member
jimmyt said:
Can someOne refresh my memory and give me a description of the "Tumble" once again.
Click to expand...
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GZOwIHeV-xw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
S

ScottRob

New
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUvQycuUJzc[/media]

I apologize for the quality. My hardrive went kaput. The only footage of my swing is are these on my youtube channel.

video # 1 - a well struck push draw. Take note of the more inside rerouting of my hands at the top. Note how long my right heel stays down. Thousands of balls hit with that intent did the trick. Thanks coach! I have not come over the top of a golf ball in 20 years.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riTZieSTJGs[/media]

video # 2 - Hitting balls in the pasture. Although I still stand the handle up. Lagging the sweetspot, focusing on up the wall (trying to lay it off a little but) and tumbling resulted in some very pure shots. It feels as though I am hitting the back of the ball for the first time. This shot, a 5 iron, hit a hay bale 218 lasered yards out. Straight as a string. I was so excited that I propped my phone on the trash can for this one.

I bought NHA2 a couple of weeks back, and have only hit these few balls since then, so I am pretty stoked. Scary thing is that I can go a lot more left!

Despite the angles and poor quality if there is anything that the trained eyes on this site can detect I would be much obliged!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top