Sergio Garcia & The Tumble

[ej20]

ScottRob,you may need better quality videos in order to get more responses.I hate to comment on videos with slow shutter speeds and poor camera angles but it looks like you are losing your tushline by about 6 inches.

Also be aware that looping your hands inside on the transition does not always equate to laying the club off.Although the videos are blurry,you don't look laid off to me despite what you might feel.Being less steep than before is different to being truly laid off like Garcia.

 

[ScottRob]

As they say "my bad!" Goats beware, I know! I am trying to lay it off, kinda like Brian says in NHA2. This is as far left as I have ever been!Although I stood the handle up, and backed off it like the ball was going to bite, the ball was struck on the sweetspot (I hit a lot heelers) and it went dead straight. The difference between the two was that there was negligible rerouting to the inside from the top by comparison...a huge deal for me. These were my first shots attempting what I learned from NHA2. I was too excited. I will calm down! Thanks for your comments. Can anybody delete these for me?

 

[ScottRob]

YouTube - Rickie Fowler Golf Swing

Now this Fowler character...? Is he a good example of a NHA2 backswing? In hand path, up the wall, then he rotates the left arm flying wedge. How is his tumble? From a laidoff position it has to be pretty dramatic, right? Why then does it appear that his hand path "out" as opposed to more "in." People?

 

[Jared Willerson]

I am a big fan of Fowler's action for some reason. I just like how he lets it go. When I let it go like that, I spin out like crazy and end up with some ridiculous looking chicken wing.

 

[Kevin Shields]

He can let it go largely because of superior face control and a sweetspot that is out on top as fast as anyone ever.

 

[ScottRob]

By out on top do you mean turning the sweetspot towards the ball?

 

[Kevin Shields]

.....with nothing in the way of a direct route to the ball allowing for pure force across the shaft and little to no rotation late.

 

[ScottRob]

aha...and late rotation is needed when you are lagging the hosel, correct?

 

[blehnhard]

What would be the clubface orientation at "shaft last parallel to the ground" before impact if you were "tumbling" early in the downswing. Would it be "toe up" or would the toe have turned somewhat to the ground? Would the clubshaft be parallel to the "low point" plane line (left of the true target if hitting down with an iron) or parallel with the true target plane line?

I like to feel a bare minimum of rotation as the clubhead travels the last 90 degrees to low point (from shaft parallel) so I am feeling that it is okay to have the toe turned somewhat to the ground at that point as well as having the feeling that the clubhead is slightly outside the hands (in relation to the true target). My worst shots have been when I tried to draw the ball from an underplane position (high handle coming into the ball) with a lot of clubface rotation late in the swing. Lots of blocks to the right as I could not get the clubface there fast enough when under the gun. Could do it on the range when hands and wrists were very loose and I could keep the body quiet.

Always was a better fader of the ball than a drawer.

Comments please.

Thanks - Bruce

 

[Damon Lucas]

Bruce,

I think that you're spot on with your analysis.

What I have observed, especially with the MATT system, is that it is typical for most decent to good golfers to have the club varying degrees of 'toe down' in that last parallel position. Obviously not an imperative(can we use that word safely??), as some golfers like Ogilvy, amongst others, are toe up but my guess would be around 90% would be toe down a bit.

 

[blehnhard]

Hi Damon,

Thanks for the response. Have really struggled with my game and putting over the last 18 months. I may try to get over to spend some time with you in the next month or so. Will be in touch.

Glad to hear that you have everything up and running.

Best regards,

Bruce

 

[birdie_man]

.....with nothing in the way of a direct route to the ball allowing for pure force across the shaft and little to no rotation late.

I like it.

 

[ScottRob]

The toe slightly "down" at the last parallel is key for me. I know that toe up at the point is not incorrect, but it was an attempt to keep the face open to compensate for the severly in to outness of the my path (something I worked diligently on to fix my hook!)

I have to feel like both the head and the face are going left, just that the head is more left of the face. I love the feeling of turning it down. Something I always liked about Johnny Miller's swing. Just got to sell the goats.

I played a quick nine yesterday. I played two ball all the way round. Last hole 169 yard par 3 (elevated tee) I hit two indentical 8 irons. The second ball pitched in the first ball's pitch mark. I do not recall ever doing that before. It do not finish as close the hole as the first one, 6 and 10 ft respectively. The only shots that I was absolutely certain that my hand path was left enough. Felt soooo good! Ball hardley moved...dead straight.

 

[curtisj76]

Wow, this has been a great post, I historically suffer from BPS, and have been working on the tumble. I think Jimmy Ballard has a nice way of teaching it, when he has you choke way down on a shaft and swing back, swing through, sticking the shaft back in your belly button and then swing swing through. Maybe, I'm not thinking through it correctly, but it seems like he's basically teaching a tumble action.

Doesn't seem exactly like the drill you mentioned but does seem to tie into this thread. Seems to be talking about dragging the handle and shanks and how to get rid of. Curious what others think about this video?

YouTube - Golf Tip: Shanks; Jimmy Ballard

 

[fanofSnead]

Kevin,

Thanks to you and Brian for all of the "underplane" / Sergio stuff... I really appreciate it, since I have always been flat/underplane and have struggled w/ consistency . The idea of keeping the left shoulder lower longer and the club head "tumble" has yielded very positive early results on the range. It may end up replacing my Stricker type pattern since I am seeing a 10-15 yard difference.

In looking at this Sergio sequence, Google Image Result for http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/upload/39729/images/Sergio-Garcia-Swing-Squence-Golf-Tip.jpg just look at how low his left shoulder is this deep into the DS. Tom Watson has also said that keeping the left should lower longer into the DS was big key for him.

Thanks again guys!

 

[gmbtempe]

left shoulder down, right shoulder up well into the downswing......heard that before somewheres. Is this what the new 3d technology has revealed?

 

[conkanen]

Sorry if this is answered somewhere else but is down-arching the same as holding the twistaway through impact?
And is this a legitimate way of tumbling the club?

 

[gmbtempe]

Sorry if this is answered somewhere else but is down-arching the same as holding the twistaway through impact?
And is this a legitimate way of tumbling the club?

I have a similar question.

It was pointed out to me that as I transition into my downswing plane (which is underplane usually) that the club face goes from a closed to an open position. The top of the left hand is facing the sky and the right palm is as well as it approaches impact.

Is the tumble a way to fix this?

Should I feel a downarch to get the face closed so that right palm starts to face the ground more as it approaches impact?

I know I usually flip the face closed (I gotta be a world class flipper cause I actually hit the ball well), yesterday when doing this I was hitting the biggest pulls of all time but not pull hooks which tells me the path might have actually been left, divots were very deep with solid contact.

Its all a bit confusing to me.

 

[footwedge]

I have a similar question.

It was pointed out to me that as I transition into my downswing plane (which is underplane usually) that the club face goes from a closed to an open position. The top of the left hand is facing the sky and the right palm is as well as it approaches impact.

Is the tumble a way to fix this?

Should I feel a downarch to get the face closed so that right palm starts to face the ground more as it approaches impact?

I know I usually flip the face closed (I gotta be a world class flipper cause I actually hit the ball well), yesterday when doing this I was hitting the biggest pulls of all time but not pull hooks which tells me the path might have actually been left, divots were very deep with solid contact.

Its all a bit confusing to me.

Do you CF? down arching exposes leading edge to the ground and delofts add in a CF release or is that a horizontal hinge or a full roll I can never tell which one or if they are all the same anyways you get the idea. What ball flight might you get?

 

[gmbtempe]

Do you CF? down arching exposes leading edge to the ground and delofts add in a CF release and what have you got?

Yea, CF because the path is to the right to far. I would rather CP but the shoulders and spine angles just make that very hard for me. You can't CP from a low right shoulder, closed shoulders and lots of axis tilt.