Sergio Garcia & The Tumble

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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Kevin Shields said:
Jbrunk was talking about the transition. When you have a free hip turn and arent on the left foot so quickly, the upper body pivot is a million times less likely to put the "transition torques" on your left arm and keep it high and rotated clockwise (for a righty)
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Superb post, Kevin! Very enlightening!
 
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teeithigh

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KEVIN, BRIAN, LINDSEY:

if a vertical left arm at impact is preferred for the tumble....would you recommend vertical arms at address -where the butt of club is VERY close to the left thigh-i remember watching mac ogrady give a clinic in the 80's and the butt of club was almost touching his left thigh at address.....any thoughts??
 
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teeithigh

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KEVIN, BRIAN, LINDSEY, DAMON or anyone is welcome to chime in.....tnx

if a vertical left arm at impact is preferred for the tumble....would you recommend vertical arms at address -where the butt of club is VERY close to the left thigh-i remember watching mac ogrady give a clinic in the 80's and the butt of club was almost touching his left thigh at address.....any thoughts??
 
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ej20

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I don't think vertical arms with very low hands at address is preferred to for anything.My opinion is that it doesn't work for most players.Don't see much of that on tour either.Sergio and Hogan certainly doesn't do it.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Sergio's swing.

dannyuk32 said:
Never been that sure on his swing, always thought he was more just damn god natural talent.
Getting older (for him, his swing) , lost that flair. I don't think it's just his putting.
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The guy flat out has a HALL OF FAME SWING.

Nothing wrong with it, or never more than something I could fix in 20 minutes.

Geez....

Can't putt it in the OCEAN!

mb6606 said:
Seems a lot easier to just swing like (Steve Stricker).
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Sure, if your Steve Stricker. :rolleyes:

Sergio — Porche
Stricker — Ford
 
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ms1170

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It's a lot tougher mentally to hit it that good and not be able to make a 9 footer, than to play like Faxon or Crenshaw and go around in 24 putts. I think it's wearing on him.
 
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Tball88

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Wow, this has been a great post, I historically suffer from BPS, and have been working on the tumble. I think Jimmy Ballard has a nice way of teaching it, when he has you choke way down on a shaft and swing back, swing through, sticking the shaft back in your belly button and then swing swing through. Maybe, I'm not thinking through it correctly, but it seems like he's basically teaching a tumble action.
 
lia41985

lia41985

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Tumblin like his countryman:
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lia41985

lia41985

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Stud:
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ej20

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aaron_lohan said:
One question, why do spme people regard QUiroz as a flat swinger or one-planer look at 0.07 seconds he's quite upright?
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In most swings,there are multiple plane shifts during backswing and downswing..Some start the takeaway steep and then lay off(flat) as they reach the top or transition.Some start flat and then steepen as they reach the top.Flattening and steeping could happen with the club,arms or shoulders during the swing.The body is made up of many joints and each joint can move in multiple directions.It is woefully incomplete to describe a swing as being flat or upright.
 
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Bigwill

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aaron_lohan said:
One question, why do spme people regard QUiroz as a flat swinger or one-planer look at 0.07 seconds he's quite upright?
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Because one plane/two plane theorists use the left arm relationship to the shoulders at the top of the swing as their reference. If the left arm is on the same angle (or lower) as the shoulders at the top of the backswing, it's a one-plane motion. If the left arm is on a steeper angle than the shoulders, then it's a two plane swing. Using that criteria, Quiros is a one plane swinger.
 
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aaron_lohan

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Bigwill said:
Because one plane/two plane theorists use the left arm relationship to the shoulders at the top of the swing as their reference. If the left arm is on the same angle (or lower) as the shoulders at the top of the backswing, it's a one-plane motion. If the left arm is on a steeper angle than the shoulders, then it's a two plane swing. Using that criteria, Quiros is a one plane swinger.
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Yes but if he swung back to parallel his left arm would be steeper than the shoulders.
 
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Bigwill

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aaron_lohan said:
Yes but if he swung back to parallel his left arm would be steeper than the shoulders.
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As would a lot of players who have been classified as one planers. The theory is nice (1p vs 2p, with the corresponding fundamentals), simple, clean, easy to present and understand. The problem is that when you take variables into account (length of swing, camera angle, shot being executed, etc.) then trying to determine something based on one angle of a 2D still photo. That's why nothing beats a good trained eye looking at a swing in person, and why using lines drawn on a computer screen can potentially create more problems than solutions.
 
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ms1170

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This has been a great thread. With some great posts from Kevin and Lindsey. I have some observations and a few questions that will hopefully lead to additional posts.

1. Verticle left arm.

Garcia, Fowler and Kuchar all turn their shoulders more than 90 degrees in the backswing. This ensures that the 1st move down with their shoulders is lower and out towards the ball. This would seem to be a huge advantage in getting to that “Verticle’ left arm position at last parallel point. Most players begin the downswing with the left shoulder moving back and up. Any recommendations for players with less than 90 degrees of shoulder turn?

2. Level shoulders, Arm position at top of backswing, #4 accumulator.

Kevin mentions “Level” shoulders at last parallel. Both Garcia and Fowler keep their right arm in front of them at the top of the backswing and don’t get their left arm across their chest. It would seem that to get to last parallel with level shoulders, the left arm has to be quite a bit off the chest. Jim Furyk with less shoulder turn has the left arm across the chest at the top of the backswing and all the way to impact. He also has a much higher left shoulder at last parallel. (He also has one more major and soon to be player of the year awards than these other two guys. I can’t believe he’s not playing tomorrow morning.)

Questions:

Should players with shoulder turns smaller than Garcia and Fowler, swing their arms farther in the backswing or more across the chest.

Is Jim Furyk minimizing #4 accumulator keeping his left arm tight to his chest? Who is a tour example of someone that maximizes #4?

I look forward to all your responses, and apologize if it’s already been covered.
 
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