Sergio Garcia & The Tumble

[Kevin Shields]

thanks for the explanation...tried the "tumble" today ala kevin's PUT THE GRIP IN THE RIGHT POCKET AND PUT THE CLUBHEAD ON THE BALL-feeling a great release, reminding me of freddy couples saying he visualized a giant pair of scissors "snapping the shaft in two" to feel that release.....would it be correct to say you won't flip as long as the left hand and forearm rotate down thru impact????

That would definately be one way not to flip.

 

[teeithigh]

thanks kevin....great into..

 

[Lindsey Newman]

thanks for the explanation...tried the "tumble" today ala kevin's PUT THE GRIP IN THE RIGHT POCKET AND PUT THE CLUBHEAD ON THE BALL-feeling a great release, reminding me of freddy couples saying he visualized a giant pair of scissors "snapping the shaft in two" to feel that release.....would it be correct to say you won't flip as long as the left hand and forearm rotate down thru impact????

Not sure about that and I agree with Kevin that tumble does not create a flip. I think if you make a good counter fall and get the low point where it needs to be you should be fine. I can see where feeling release while tumbling can be a bit scary if you're like I once was. I used to think the end all be all of ball striking revolved around a forward leaning shaft at impact.If you start truly flipping and not hitting it solid then you gotta look at low point control and your pivot to address that. Just my opinion ofcourse.

 

[footwedge]

I am picking up what your laying down. I can dig it. I guess in way the point is for the club head and shaft to go down, out and around without a bunch of drag on the butt end of the club. If you drag the handle left the shaft will follow the drag, fall back and open the face. If you want the clubhead to swing more left to hit a fade cool, but dragging the butt end left is a recipe for skanks and pull hooks.

I do get your analogy and that PVC training aid is called the SAM 2000. That will date me a bit, but it's all good.

Thanks for the reply, i wasn't meaning to say drag the butt of the club left but more of push the shaft/clubhead over/outwards with the right side to create the squaring of the face after the downwards transition . More of a trapped shot. Then after impact club exits inwards/left. If that makes sense.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Thanks for the reply, i wasn't meaning to say drag the butt of the club left but more of push the shaft/clubhead over/outwards with the right side to create the squaring of the face after the downwards transition . More of a trapped shot. Then after impact club exits inwards/left. If that makes sense.

Yes! I think the feel you are describing is more consistent to tumbling than dragging.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Just as a side comment, I hope this thread is helping some people because its a good one but I always wonder if things are clear. I thought curtisj had it going and he developed the shanks, precisely the opposite of what this will encourage.

 

[joeunc]

Kevin, can it be summed up as:

- stay closed with the shoulders at the start of the downswing
- hands come in and try to stay inside the imaginary line straight down from the chin.

What other bullet points could you add?

thanks

 

[alocirga]

Let's get ready to Tumble..

Would love to see a video explaining the tumble and the theory of when/why its applied. Could demonstrate variations based on swing types, etc. and could also work it into that much anticipated underplane video we've been waiting on.

 

[conkanen]

Just as a side comment, I hope this thread is helping some people because its a good one but I always wonder if things are clear. I thought curtisj had it going and he developed the shanks, precisely the opposite of what this will encourage.

It's an important thread but until I see a vid I am afraid I will try something that will just really screw up my game. Not sure I really get the tumble.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

It's an important thread but until I see a vid I am afraid I will try something that will just really screw up my game. Not sure I really get the tumble.

Conkanen,

Certainly, I understand what you are saying. I am tempted to do something, but I would rather the Manzellian do something that would be of worthy production value. Words can only do so much.

 

[conkanen]

Conkanen,

Certainly, I understand what you are saying. I am tempted to do something, but I would rather the Manzellian do something that would be of worthy production value. Words can only do so much.

Thx Lindsey,

You've done a great job on your explanations as many here would agree. I am sure you would do the same for a video explanation as well. I can understand you wanting to wait for Brian however.

Thx again!

 

[niblick1]

I hope that italian guy includes a description of shoulder tumble in the tumble video -- since I got a lesson in Lou-uh-vul not long ago and have been working on that since then.

Is it just that the shoulder move down and out causes the club tumble that some do more with their hands/arms?

 

[lia41985]

How important is a good "sit down" move in getting a nice tumble going? I guess Lindsey's comment on counter-fall may address this point, but just making sure...

Regarding uncocking and rolling: a tumble that has the hands moving more vertically would seem to have the look of these two processes being more distinct than one in which the hands move more hohorizontally, no?

 

[Lindsey Newman]

How important is a good "sit down" move in getting a nice tumble going? I guess Lindsey's comment on counter-fall may address this point, but just making sure...

Regarding uncocking and rolling: a tumble that has the hands moving more vertically would seem to have the look of these two processes being more distinct than one in which the hands move more hohorizontally, no?

When I say use the term counter-fall I guess I am saying transition where you shift the low point forward and don't hand have an initial out hand path. The "sit down" is kind of misunderdstood because it conjures up those Leadpoisoning (just kidding) I mean Leadbetter images of the target side of the body seperating from the other half during transition. I understand what is meant by it, but again words are just words. What one person does while attempting a "sit down" transition may help the hands work vertically and another person might go out or over the right hand path and have to back it up. I say what ever it takes to get the hand path right will work.

Now, I am not one to speak in terms of release much and I really don"t use phrases like uncocking and rolling. I just think of the shaft and club face working in a "positive" direction as opposed to falling backwards on the way down.

 

[jbrunk]

Just as a side comment, I hope this thread is helping some people because its a good one but I always wonder if things are clear. I thought curtisj had it going and he developed the shanks, precisely the opposite of what this will encourage.

I think the secret to all of what is being discussed here is 'what to do for that 1/2 second at transition'. As I see it, you cant just 'go to the ball' even from a perfect backswing position and pivot. This is my issue and I fight it all the time. Sergio lays the club off at the top and as he is doing this, his left shoulder stays low and moves horizontally....setting him up for tumble. Other players have a sit down which which keeps them closed and lets the club drop. I can't lay it off, and I suck at sitting down. What do I do for that fraction of a second so I can get my club to drop. I think most of my positions are pretty good, but I still can't get this down.


Am I right?

 

[footwedge]

I think the secret to all of what is being discussed here is 'what to do for that 1/2 second at transition'. As I see it, you cant just 'go to the ball' even from a perfect backswing position and pivot. This is my issue and I fight it all the time. Sergio lays the club off at the top and as he is doing this, his left shoulder stays low and moves horizontally....setting him up for tumble. Other players have a sit down which which keeps them closed and lets the club drop. I can't lay it off, and I suck at sitting down. What do I do for that fraction of a second so I can get my club to drop. I think most of my positions are pretty good, but I still can't get this down.


Am I right?

Drive the butt of the club what feels like straight down at your rear foot towards the heel of that foot, but keep moving to a finish don't stall out. It's just a feel, it won't look like how it feels.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I think the secret to all of what is being discussed here is 'what to do for that 1/2 second at transition'. As I see it, you cant just 'go to the ball' even from a perfect backswing position and pivot. This is my issue and I fight it all the time. Sergio lays the club off at the top and as he is doing this, his left shoulder stays low and moves horizontally....setting him up for tumble. Other players have a sit down which which keeps them closed and lets the club drop. I can't lay it off, and I suck at sitting down. What do I do for that fraction of a second so I can get my club to drop. I think most of my positions are pretty good, but I still can't get this down.


Am I right?

Thats why a free hip turn and some weight off the left foot is so important despite what some camps think.

 

[Matt Bryda]

Thats why a free hip turn and some weight off the left foot is so important despite what some camps think.

Which encourages a more in hand path going back and sets the whole thing up to tumble. yes?

Matt

 

[lia41985]

Thats why a free hip turn and some weight off the left foot is so important despite what some camps think.

Can you explain this more fully, please? Why is this so?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Can you explain this more fully, please? Why is this so?

Jbrunk was talking about the transition. When you have a free hip turn and arent on the left foot so quickly, the upper body pivot is a million times less likely to put the "transition torques" on your left arm and keep it high and rotated clockwise (for a righty)