Sergio Garcia & The Tumble

[vjsinger]

IMO players like Garcia, Fowler,Hogan etc. lay the club off aggressively in transition, not because of what they do with their left arm, but because of what they do with the right shoulder/scapula and right arm, their strong arms. The laid off position simply happens because of the timing that these players "slot the club" or move their scapula/shoulder/ right arm closer to their right side in the DS. These players make this move earlier than players like Tiger or Sadlowski who have plenty of lag.

 

[GPM1985]

IMO players like Garcia, Fowler,Hogan etc. lay the club off aggressively in transition, not because of what they do with their left arm, but because of what they do with the right shoulder/scapula and right arm, their strong arms. The laid off position simply happens because of the timing that these players "slot the club" or move their scapula/shoulder/ right arm closer to their right side in the DS. These players make this move earlier than players like Tiger or Sadlowski who have plenty of lag.

I don't know. Hogan was left-handed, and he and Sergio both have more trigger delay than Tiger.

 

[vjsinger]

I don't know. Hogan was left-handed, and he and Sergio both have more trigger delay than Tiger.

Hogan played in an era when left-handed equipment wasn't readily available as it is today. Tiger is left handed as well, Phil is right-handed As for the trigger delay, yeah that was the point of what I said, it's WHEN you slot the club and what arm you use. Are you saying that only one arm is responsible for the entire motion of the swing? Do you believe that one side of the body is responsible for powering the pivot? Do you believe in "hitting" and "swinging"?

 

[spktho]

I think the "unique" transition is not that important in these swings. The importance of these swings IMO is what Kevin pointed out--the left arm being vertical to the ground when the shaft is parallel to the ground--for the reasons he stated: able to use accumulator #3 and as much right arm as you want while still swinging left. It may not be that important which arm is responsible for getting there as both need to get there as they are attached to relatively the same place.

 

[holeout]

Hogan played in an era when left-handed equipment wasn't readily available as it is today. Tiger is left handed as well, Phil is right-handed As for the trigger delay, yeah that was the point of what I said, it's WHEN you slot the club and what arm you use. Are you saying that only one arm is responsible for the entire motion of the swing? Do you believe that one side of the body is responsible for powering the pivot? Do you believe in "hitting" and "swinging"?

Tiger is right-handed.

And I don't think anyone who has been on this forum for any period of time really thinks that pure hitting or swinging exists in the real world. I'm not sure what GPM's point was but I don't think it had to do with hitting/swinging.

 

[rogerdodger]

Those without a lot of tricep or wrist strength might have to lay the club off to give the tumble a running start so to speak. Kids who learn to do this early like Fowler and Garcia lay it off. It its something you pick up as a fix to underplane i would suggest on line or slightly cross the line to acheive down hand path and a vert left arm.

Thanks Kevin, gives me a much better idea how to get the club left.

 

[GPM1985]

Hogan played in an era when left-handed equipment wasn't readily available as it is today. Tiger is left handed as well, Phil is right-handed As for the trigger delay, yeah that was the point of what I said, it's WHEN you slot the club and what arm you use. Are you saying that only one arm is responsible for the entire motion of the swing? Do you believe that one side of the body is responsible for powering the pivot? Do you believe in "hitting" and "swinging"?

Whoa, easy baby. An emphatic "no" to all three questions/accusations.

I was just pointing out that your theory may be off given that Hogan was left handed, meaning that he wouldn't be making the move you speak of with his strong arm. You also separate Garcia and Hogan from Tiger and Sadlowski based on trigger delay, which confused me.

Kevin put it nicely saying that laying it off is a way to give the tumble a head start. I'll go with that. It's a more developed and well-articulated version of a thought I've had about laying it off. My intuition was that the guys who lay it off can transition more agressively because the handle is already oriented toward the ball, whereas a guy who's across the line will have the handle pointing behind him a little more. The laid-off guys are ready to go back to the ball sooner, I guess.

 

[vjsinger]

Tiger is right-handed.

Huh? Earl must be full of it, I swear I remember him saying Tiger writes, eats and does alot of things left handed?

 

[vjsinger]

Whoa, easy baby. An emphatic "no" to all three questions/accusations.

I was just pointing out that your theory may be off given that Hogan was left handed, meaning that he wouldn't be making the move you speak of with his strong arm. You also separate Garcia and Hogan from Tiger and Sadlowski based on trigger delay, which confused me.

Kevin put it nicely saying that laying it off is a way to give the tumble a head start. I'll go with that. It's a more developed and well-articulated version of a thought I've had about laying it off. My intuition was that the guys who lay it off can transition more agressively because the handle is already oriented toward the ball, whereas a guy who's across the line will have the handle pointing behind him a little more. The laid-off guys are ready to go back to the ball sooner, I guess.

Funny how touchy some can be. I didn't accuse you of anything, I asked questions, thus the question marks.
I'm not disagreeing with Kevin or anyone, I'm just more interested in how someone lays it off and why? I'm not convinced on it being a strength issue, but of course I'm still learning and wonder if it has more to do with timing and a little flexibility? I don't agree with someone who discounts the timing of the transition not being a factor at the last parallel.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I never said laying the club off is a strength issue. I said those who learn a severe trap-down tumble at an early age probably needed a "running start" to do it, and they learned to lay it off.

 

[holeout]

Huh? Earl must be full of it, I swear I remember him saying Tiger writes, eats and does alot of things left handed?

Tiger is left eye dominant, but he signs autographs with his right hand. And he also talks about his "dominant" hand being the key to his putting stroke (and in doing so he refers to his right hand).

 

[tobell]

According to that very cool (except the end where the instructor does his thing) Motion analysis video...Sergio really doesn't "lay-off" at the top or end of his backswing...he loses the cup in his left wrist at the start of his downswing giving that "laid-off" look...also I believe Sergio braces his left knee inward against his right hip..in a Joe Norwood-ish manner...this helps him keep his right shoulder higher going into the final parallel to the ground position.

 

[curtisj76]

I like hearing Sergio more than I like looking at his swing. Turn the speakers up and listen to this:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDsCLfNn4UA&feature=related[/media]

 

[Brian Manzella]

Get to the top and just Turn!

This may be the ULTIMATE shoulder tumble!!

 

[conkanen]

I've slowed that swing down a million times and I still can't figure it out.

 

[dannyc]

This may be the ULTIMATE shoulder tumble!!

if i tried that, i'd whiff.

 

[Steve Khatib]

She is a genius. Poetry in motion.

 

[KOC]

I would like to ask about a question regarding Sergio setup....we heard "just flex your knee a bit" ....but it seems alot in Sergio's case.

How can we find out how much knee fix?

 

[jbrunk]

I have always had trouble visualizing ‘what to do with the hands’ at transition. I have hit two shots in my life on the course where I inadvertently ‘laid it off like Sergio’ and one was the best/longest/straightest drive I have ever hit, and one was a 140 yd PW that almost flew in the hole.

Every time I try to copy said move, I hit 10 good shots and 10 shanks. I would love to know how to repeat it successfully and cure my bad habits, but the worry of the bad shots overpowers the glory of the good ones.

The idea of locking the left knee against the right hip is something I have already kind of been working on, so the search continues.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I have always had trouble visualizing ‘what to do with the hands’ at transition. I have hit two shots in my life on the course where I inadvertently ‘laid it off like Sergio’ and one was the best/longest/straightest drive I have ever hit, and one was a 140 yd PW that almost flew in the hole.

Every time I try to copy said move, I hit 10 good shots and 10 shanks. I would love to know how to repeat it successfully and cure my bad habits, but the worry of the bad shots overpowers the glory of the good ones.

The idea of locking the left knee against the right hip is something I have already kind of been working on, so the search continues.

Make sure you keep the left shoulder low and closed in the first move down