Should I Give Up Putting Practice - Or just quit golf altogether?
- Thread starter blehnhard
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Thanks for the response Art. The days I feel most in control of my putting, I have been using what feels like a hands only motion. I started experimenting with this after discussions of the "flick" motion. Your comments earlier made me start thinking I may be unintentionally introducing chaos into the motion with the shoulders. I'll have to work with this for a few weeks.
drewyallop
New
Thanks for taking the time art.
For me rocking meant taking the putter straight back and through. I never had success with this. Thinking shoulder rotation about the spine cf Magnum and letting the putter head move open to closed or open to straight helped me improve. I am not sure we are talking about the same thing though. Rocking to me means moving the shoulders up and down parallel to the target line.
Drew
Virtuoso
New
Blehnhard-
Hmmm, assuming your putting fundamentals are reasonably intact--by that I mean the ability in practice to have a good face angle at impact--then you may have what I call the "twist yips".
I've had a few bouts of that myself. If, under pressure, you feel like starting the ball on line is the same sensation of trying to push two magnets together that have the same poles, ie, repulsive, then that is the twist yips. It feels like trying to roll the ball down a tight rope--you try to protect against the ball falling off both sides, so your brain chooses one side wildly.
For me there was a specific pathology behind it. I can't really speak to your pathology, but there may be similarities. I'll come back later and describe mine.
This is a common ailment among guys that are significantly better ball strikers than the guys they play with.
Hmmm, assuming your putting fundamentals are reasonably intact--by that I mean the ability in practice to have a good face angle at impact--then you may have what I call the "twist yips".
I've had a few bouts of that myself. If, under pressure, you feel like starting the ball on line is the same sensation of trying to push two magnets together that have the same poles, ie, repulsive, then that is the twist yips. It feels like trying to roll the ball down a tight rope--you try to protect against the ball falling off both sides, so your brain chooses one side wildly.
For me there was a specific pathology behind it. I can't really speak to your pathology, but there may be similarities. I'll come back later and describe mine.
This is a common ailment among guys that are significantly better ball strikers than the guys they play with.
Virtuoso -
I believe that you have described my "ailment" perfectly. Putter face can either go dead left or dead right. In practice, no issues, but on the course it can be a different story. My putting yesterday with my old BullsEye was much better than normal in that only one time did I "twist" the puter face.
For me, every round (exept when I am out by myself practicing - hitting several balls, etc.) "means" something as I am always "score" concious even if there is no money on the line.
Golf is supposed to be fun but I guess it is hard to give up the scoring mentality even if I no longer play tournament golf for a living - guess "pride" just keeps rearing it ugly head. Fun for me is shooting some low scores and hitting good golf shots.
Thanks for your input and also thanks to all of the others who have posted so far on this thread.
Bruce
I believe that you have described my "ailment" perfectly. Putter face can either go dead left or dead right. In practice, no issues, but on the course it can be a different story. My putting yesterday with my old BullsEye was much better than normal in that only one time did I "twist" the puter face.
For me, every round (exept when I am out by myself practicing - hitting several balls, etc.) "means" something as I am always "score" concious even if there is no money on the line.
Golf is supposed to be fun but I guess it is hard to give up the scoring mentality even if I no longer play tournament golf for a living - guess "pride" just keeps rearing it ugly head. Fun for me is shooting some low scores and hitting good golf shots.
Thanks for your input and also thanks to all of the others who have posted so far on this thread.
Bruce
Art - thanks for your input on putting. On another note, I have begun using the BBKIB on my full swing and it has made a noticable improvement to my ball striking. As on "older guy" with a bad left ankle, I have some balance issues in the follow thru, but if I can have better dynamic balance thru impact - so what if I don't have that "pretty" balanced finish.
Bruce
Bruce
dschultz6072
New
This is how I practice and remind myself of the feelings of a good putting stroke for me. Place your head on a wall, as if you were in a putting posture, and clasp your hands together in a kind of putting grip. Pretend to make a putting stroke. You should see the elimination of unnecessary moving parts, like overdoing the "rocking shoulders" which could get you into trouble (i.e. head rocks forward then back). For me, it just feels like an arm/club unit, not so much a triangle with my shoulders as well.
Virtuoso
New
The thing I've found about the twist yips is that the chances of them happening was inversely proportional to the difficulty of the putt. If the putt was a 35 foot double breaker downhill over a tier, I was much less likely to flinch than if I was putting a dead straight 3 footer.
So, the basic pathology is that it's too easy. What do I mean by that? It's not that I thought that good putting was easy, as much as I thought it was not right (nor just) that a chop could walk up and luck in a 5 footer while I missed a lot of them....especially after I had made a wad of 5 footers on the practice green. After all, Harold Slingmore couldn't luck into that little butter fade 3 iron I just hit to 5 feet....he shouldn't be able to do it with the 5 foot putt either....especially since he's going to jab it in for par and I'm going to flinch it sideways and miss birdie and tie him...if I don't flinch the 2 foot comebacker and lose the hole.
And I didn't really consciously think that, because I even have manners internally....but one more layer down, I did feel that way. I had to access my deep inner poor sportsman to begin to unravel the problem.
The inner poor sportsman is right in a lot of ways, but crippled in the sense that this part of my persona refuses to accept the entire truth about golf. So he's armed with less than the whole truth but still gets to motivate a huge portion of my behavior. The inner poor sportsman is also a bully and a coward (as most bully's are). When he gets beaten on a hole with a good putt, he wants to outdrive his competitor by an even greater distance on the next hole to send a message, but then prays that same competitor will give him the 2 foot putt he has for par after he misses his birdie putt.
You see, the inner poor sportsman wants to show off doing things he's already good at (ie, hit solid golf shots his buddies have no chance to pull off), but has no desire whatsoever to take on a challenge that scares him (ie, make a downhill breaking 3 footer that his buddies are quite capable of pulling off). The fact that it is downhill and breaking does not scare him; the possibility that someone of much lesser skill can routinely make it and he may miss is what really scares him.
The funny thing is, if I took my golfing buddies to the practice green, I could out-putt them easily....but the inner poor sportsman wouldn't let me do it on the course where it counted.
to be continued...
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Dear bleknhard,
Thanks for the not and a shorthand way to describe 'Bumpy back etc.
Regarding this new information about age and the condition of your left ankle, DON'T be hesitant to try flaring your left foot a little more 'open'. In fact, BBKIB has been derived from a toytal body golf swing analytics, which is appropriately named BODIGolf for Body Optimized and Dynamics Integrated, based on my basic hypothesis that the body is PERFECTLY equipped to 'optimize' every move we ask of it, even a golf swing.
The actions required however are that we MUST provide the 'environment' for these new to the body movements. SO, just flare your left foot 10 degrees at a time, looking for the position with which you are most comfortable.
I will be delighted to answer any questions tat you or others have with this approach.
Appreciatively,
art
Virtuoso - very interesting post on the analysis of one's "inner self". I can see some of that in me. I think another poor habit is almost "wishing one would putt poorly" so that they can "cry" about their poor putting to get sympathy from others - if I take an honest look at myself, I would have to say "been there - done that". Its the "if I could putt like you, I would beat the pants off you" syndrome.
Honest self analysis is brutal sometimes.
Thanks - Bruce
Honest self analysis is brutal sometimes.
Thanks - Bruce
Art - thanks for the reply. I already fan the left foot about 10 deg past "45". Will try to move it some more but then it becomes more difficult to complete the backswing. I many times have to "spin" the left foot more open during the DS so that it is pointing more toward the target at the finish than at setup.
Bruce
Bruce
Virtuoso
New
Bruce, it is brutal...but also a relief to feel like there is something concrete for me to work on--especially when there is such a mysterious disconnect between performance in practice and on-course performance.
Ok, so I have an internal persona who is driving my behavior, but not equipped to drive my behavior efficiently....or better, he is not equipped to play the entire game of golf. Why? Because the inner poor sportsman would be tickled to death to be given every putt inside of 5 feet.....or actually all putts inside of 5 feet and any par putt inside of 10 feet.....or actually, those two putts and he also wants to be able to take any seemingly straight forward pitch shot that happens to be off a tight softpan lie (that is easy to chunk) and walk it up to 5 feet...and then be given the 5 footer for par. Do you see where I'm going with this? The pathology is not really about putting per say; it's about avoiding humiliation. For each person it's different but it just so happens that the putting twist yips happen more often to guys that strike the full shots well.
So, the inner poor sportsman is trying to eliminate any facets of the game of golf that make him nervous...he refuses to accept the game of golf for what it actually is: he wants to reduce a game of skill to a game of certainty.
And really, he can rear his ugly head in so many situations. If I'm leading a tournamant and I have 3 holes to play, my inner poor sportsman shows up and says, "Wouldn't it be great if we could just be given par for the last three holes and walk to the clubhouse? We just need to get that trophy today and bask in the glory. We will worry about the challenge of finishing a golf tournamant some other time." (which, of course, means never)
He does the same thing on short putts in casual rounds, he says, "It's silly to have to stand over this putt, what a chore this is....lets' just act like we are not even trying to make it. I wish we could just take this putt and move on to the next hole. If I make it, no one cares, and if I miss it, for any one of a thousand reasons that could cause this putt to miss, I'll look like a stooge..."
Basically, if I gave this part of my persona a choice between no golf at all and a certain trophy or a challenging round of golf and uncertainty of the outcome.....he would choose no golf at all.
So, after all this, it turns out the inner poor sportsman is not even a golfer! And there we have the problem.
to be continued...
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Virtuoso
New
So, the inner poor sportsman is not even a golfer and I'm allowing him to be in control of my mental faculties in the most stressful golfing situations....or, um, is perhaps the inner poor sportsman the very cause of the stress itself?
He is.
Why? Because the inner poor sportsman only knows how to grade performance using a pass/fail system. He is not equipped to grade on more incremental levels. His biggest fear is humiliation, so he wants to know at what exact point humiliation begins and then put me on one side of the fence or the other. According to him, I'm either a hero or a goat.
Obviously, the very nature of golf, and performance within this sport is incremental. But, the reason more golfers struggle with yips on putting instead of full swings is because putting tends to lend itself better to the inner poor sportsman's grading system. It's easy for him to say make=hero and miss=goat....especially with the really short putts.
But, of course, even an accurate appraisal of putting performance is significantly more complicated than the inner poor sportsman will admit, ie, good strokes miss, and sometimes bad strokes make. So, I should grade myself accordingly, and boot the poor sportsman out of the process.
to be continued...
He is.
Why? Because the inner poor sportsman only knows how to grade performance using a pass/fail system. He is not equipped to grade on more incremental levels. His biggest fear is humiliation, so he wants to know at what exact point humiliation begins and then put me on one side of the fence or the other. According to him, I'm either a hero or a goat.
Obviously, the very nature of golf, and performance within this sport is incremental. But, the reason more golfers struggle with yips on putting instead of full swings is because putting tends to lend itself better to the inner poor sportsman's grading system. It's easy for him to say make=hero and miss=goat....especially with the really short putts.
But, of course, even an accurate appraisal of putting performance is significantly more complicated than the inner poor sportsman will admit, ie, good strokes miss, and sometimes bad strokes make. So, I should grade myself accordingly, and boot the poor sportsman out of the process.
to be continued...
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duckjr78
New
This is so good, I am on edge waiting for the next installment.
Talk about being in my head.....
Virtuoso
New
So, yes, we need to remove the inner poor sportsman from the grading process, especially since it is such a grossly oversimplified value judgment.
I think most sports psychologists would tell me I need to “quiet” the poor sportsman so that I could more easily forget about the consequences and execute the stroke without fear….and I agree, and I’ve tried to muzzle him, but this part of my psyche just does not want shut up. He is like a precocious and rambunctious child riding in the back seat during a long family trip. He is immature, emotional, anxious, fearful and refuses to listen to reason. So, instead of trying to shut him up, I’ve decided to give him another task to distract him—just as you would turn on Toy Story 3 for the child riding in the back seat. More on that later.
But, making value judgments is not the only thing he does: he also tries to actually help with the physical motions of the stroke….which is the most damaging of all (because, remember, he doesn’t even know how to play golf). Unfortunately, what he does know that is actually true, is that the most important mechanical thing in putting is impact clubface angle. Armed with that nugget, and with the best intentions, he becomes a radical nuisance.
Because the inner poor sportsman is in a magnificent love affair with CERTAINTY, he decides he is going to force the clubface square at impact. Only one problem: he is only armed with a crude approximation of where “square” actually is (technically, better than 4 degrees, but no better than 2). This does not temper his enthusiasm to be a busybody during my stroke.
The way it generally goes is this: he won’t let me take the putter back until he is absolutely ready, but he’s never really ready because he is still searching for the perfect sense of square. But I force the start without him anyway…..he is already anxious and irritated with me but tries to catch up; in my mind, he is running after me screaming, “I wasn’t ready, I wasn’t ready!” As I change directions and start the forward stroke, he starts saying, “Oh no! Here it comes, here it comes! Ok, um, that’s square NOW. Freeze the face angle there NOW!......no, no, no, not there! You missed square…you should have frozen to square earlier!! Dang it….that really sucked!”
And he continues: “Oh my goodness, I didn’t even bother to help you on the practice green and you did fine. Now we come out here, and I know you want to do well, so out of the goodness of my heart, I try to help you…and you do worse! This is ridiculous. Ok, on the next hole, freeze the clubface when I tell you to!”
To be continued…
I think most sports psychologists would tell me I need to “quiet” the poor sportsman so that I could more easily forget about the consequences and execute the stroke without fear….and I agree, and I’ve tried to muzzle him, but this part of my psyche just does not want shut up. He is like a precocious and rambunctious child riding in the back seat during a long family trip. He is immature, emotional, anxious, fearful and refuses to listen to reason. So, instead of trying to shut him up, I’ve decided to give him another task to distract him—just as you would turn on Toy Story 3 for the child riding in the back seat. More on that later.
But, making value judgments is not the only thing he does: he also tries to actually help with the physical motions of the stroke….which is the most damaging of all (because, remember, he doesn’t even know how to play golf). Unfortunately, what he does know that is actually true, is that the most important mechanical thing in putting is impact clubface angle. Armed with that nugget, and with the best intentions, he becomes a radical nuisance.
Because the inner poor sportsman is in a magnificent love affair with CERTAINTY, he decides he is going to force the clubface square at impact. Only one problem: he is only armed with a crude approximation of where “square” actually is (technically, better than 4 degrees, but no better than 2). This does not temper his enthusiasm to be a busybody during my stroke.
The way it generally goes is this: he won’t let me take the putter back until he is absolutely ready, but he’s never really ready because he is still searching for the perfect sense of square. But I force the start without him anyway…..he is already anxious and irritated with me but tries to catch up; in my mind, he is running after me screaming, “I wasn’t ready, I wasn’t ready!” As I change directions and start the forward stroke, he starts saying, “Oh no! Here it comes, here it comes! Ok, um, that’s square NOW. Freeze the face angle there NOW!......no, no, no, not there! You missed square…you should have frozen to square earlier!! Dang it….that really sucked!”
And he continues: “Oh my goodness, I didn’t even bother to help you on the practice green and you did fine. Now we come out here, and I know you want to do well, so out of the goodness of my heart, I try to help you…and you do worse! This is ridiculous. Ok, on the next hole, freeze the clubface when I tell you to!”
To be continued…
I hope so. I've read horror novels that have had me less on the edge of the seat.
magicmarker
New
This is so good, I don't want it to end.
Virtuoso
New
Well, this just wasn't fun anymore. How could I put up with the poor sportsman causing my poor performance and then critisizing me for it afterwards. It was literally like a blind man leading around a sighted person, and then having the blind man yell at the sighted person when they ran into something. Really just silly.
I came up with an idea. I wanted to continue to play golf, but i had to drag the poor sportsman around with me (because, afterall, he is me), so I decided to send him to rehab...golf rehab.
He had to be made to understand the true nature of golf. I had to reverse his reasoning and prejudices so completely that he came back with a totally different value system (a more incremental one) AND had a completely diffferent attitude about the concept of uncertainty.
Currently, the inner poor sportsman found short putts "easy" and hated them, soon he would find them "challenging" and love them, so much so that he couldn't wait to get to the green to try them...especially under pressure. And, when the putts missed, he wouldn't spend resources feeling embarrassed.....he would spend all his resources investigating why the putt missed. He would not care that it did miss, he would only want to know why it missed....OR why it went in. It would be an accurate and unbiased appraisal of the entire process, and it would keep him so busy watching the stroke (and taking notes), he would have no time or resources left to actually meddle with the physical movements of the stroke itself.
to be continued...
I came up with an idea. I wanted to continue to play golf, but i had to drag the poor sportsman around with me (because, afterall, he is me), so I decided to send him to rehab...golf rehab.
He had to be made to understand the true nature of golf. I had to reverse his reasoning and prejudices so completely that he came back with a totally different value system (a more incremental one) AND had a completely diffferent attitude about the concept of uncertainty.
Currently, the inner poor sportsman found short putts "easy" and hated them, soon he would find them "challenging" and love them, so much so that he couldn't wait to get to the green to try them...especially under pressure. And, when the putts missed, he wouldn't spend resources feeling embarrassed.....he would spend all his resources investigating why the putt missed. He would not care that it did miss, he would only want to know why it missed....OR why it went in. It would be an accurate and unbiased appraisal of the entire process, and it would keep him so busy watching the stroke (and taking notes), he would have no time or resources left to actually meddle with the physical movements of the stroke itself.
to be continued...
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