Sweet Spot Plane
- Thread starter mandrin
- Start date
- Status
quote:Originally posted by mandrin
Jono, trying to model the human body to the nth degree is likely a waste of time, except for some golf nuts, doing this as an interesting hobby. Your favourite golf instructor/scientist Jack Kuykendal, what about him, still following him faithfully; he hasn’t shown you the light yet?
I believe that many TGMers are so immensely proud of their method that they are losing their sense of reality and truly think they can feel things that even quite sophisticated scientific equipment would have a very hard time detecting adequately.
A objective test would be to have a golfer wired up and have him state his choice, shaft or sweet spot plane, and see if that mounts up to any measurable difference. Yet if his believe system helps him to be a better golfer than it is perfectly all right. You are, I am sure, somewhat familiar with the placebo effect. []
Mandrin,
You don't need to model the human body to the nth degree ... However, you do need some 3D idea of what needs to happen to make it happen. (I personally don't think a flat 2D plane concept is enough) Most pros probably have this concept without being able to verbalize it.
I think TGM's strong point is the geometry. Not perfect, but better than most other representations of the swing plane out there. In terms of what Homer calls "the physics", I think it is quite weak. You have illustrated one example of this.
So I come back to my point, how can we, as golfers, utilize your work? What can we do to maximize the chance of the sweetspot making contact with the ball, instead of the hosel (which is only approx 1 inch from the sweetspot)? How do we get the precision we need? Do we start aiming the line of the centrifugal force just inside the ball?
I'm not sure how to locate the center of gravity only that it should be the center of mass.
If the sweetspot and the COG is the same, depends on the definition
of sweetspot. I would say that sweetspot is the place which gives a balanced impact. This would mean that COG and sweetspot is the same
except that the sweetspot is on the surface of course.
This also means that clubs with lot of mass in the lower part of the clubhead are designed so that impact occurs above the sweetspot to get
a higher trajectory.
mandrin
New
Tongzilla, MizunoJoe, be rather careful, since you are on very slippery path, on the verge of disclaiming any value for the ideas of Homer Kelley. But I don’t think you are even the slightest aware of this implication in your arguments. That is really the fun part, so please keep trucking.
mandrin
New
Brian,
Monoculture is very popular nowadays. However in the long run disastrous. In human society there is also, equivalently, monoculturalism. [V]
There is Yin and Yang, there is black and white, not a single coin has just only side. Any sound living entity needs a bit of everything. [^]
Our body is healthy when things are in balance not when one side is completely eradicated. Too clean a live and a travelers tummy in other countries. [8D]
I have on occasion been tempted but I feel that it would be like walking stark naked into a church jam-packed with people lynching with me with their eyes. [:I]
I scanned once and found to be referred to on several occasions as “that Mandrin dork”. Yet, I had not written one single message. What about the if I did? [8)]
quote:Originally posted by mandrin
Originally posted by Jono
Mandrin, couple of random points in no particular order:
Jono, trying to model the human body to the nth degree is likely a waste of time, except for some golf nuts, doing this as an interesting hobby. Your favourite golf instructor/scientist Jack Kuykendal, what about him, still following him faithfully; he hasn’t shown you the light yet?
Trying to make a model of the human body is a waste of time....I'd like to hear you tell Mac O'Grady he has wasted his time in research and development of the MORAD models.....How many PGA Tour events have you won mandarin....let alone teach PGA Tour Level players...I have .....several....You can argue science to the nth degree ...but when you are on the battlefields of the PGA Tour...they want to apply it....not debate it!!!! You know science used to contend the earth was flat...oh later after the pride was humbled by several noted explorers.....it is "a-round".....Yes there are some religous zealots in this world...but that doesn't make them foolish...only the one who doesn't believe their is a God is the Fool!!!
mandrin
New
quote:Originally posted by Non-AuthorizedTGM
NATGM, short posts inevitably lead on occasion to some misunderstanding. However if I add “mathematically” to get “model mathematically” I think that things probably clear up.quote:Originally posted by mandrin
Trying to make a model of the human body is a waste of time....I'd like to hear you tell Mac O'Grady he has wasted his time in research and development of the MORAD models.....How many PGA Tour events have you won mandarin....let alone teach PGA Tour Level players...I have .....several....You can argue science to the nth degree ...but when you are on the battlefields of the PGA Tour...they want to apply it....not debate it!!!! You know science used to contend the earth was flat...oh later after the pride was humbled by several noted explorers.....it is "a-round".....Yes there are some religous zealots in this world...but that doesn't make them foolish...only the one who doesn't believe their is a God is the Fool!!!Originally posted by Jono
Mandrin, couple of random points in no particular order:
Jono, trying to model the human body to the nth degree is likely a waste of time, except for some golf nuts, doing this as an interesting hobby. Your favourite golf instructor/scientist Jack Kuykendal, what about him, still following him faithfully; he hasn’t shown you the light yet?
I know first hand how complicated even a very simple model gets when expressed into mathematical terms. Hence, there is very quickly a practical limit reached for mathematical modeling.
If my arguments don’t convince you why don’t you have a look here. These are the differential equations I have developed for a very simple two segment model incorporating flexing for the shaft.
tongzilla
New
Guys, I might sound like I really care about this argument...but I really don't. However...
Mandrin, has your research been validated by University Professors? The Golfing Machine was sent to three (someome please correct me if I'm wrong) leading authorities for approval, and to my knowledge, they all gave it a pass. I know Brian has more information regarding this.
Since very few of us here have the knowledge to see whether your differential equations, etc. are actually correct.
Have a good day.
Mandrin, has your research been validated by University Professors? The Golfing Machine was sent to three (someome please correct me if I'm wrong) leading authorities for approval, and to my knowledge, they all gave it a pass. I know Brian has more information regarding this.
Since very few of us here have the knowledge to see whether your differential equations, etc. are actually correct.
Have a good day.
birdie_man
New
That was deep mandrin.....you'd make a good philosopher....maybe politician.
Is that Chinese?
mandrin
New
I could not resist to try to get a more precise handle on the topic of the forces coming into play in the down swing and acting on the golf club trying to keep it nicely contained in the dynamic down swing plane. The result of this effort can be found here for those who are interested in these matters. [8D]
mandrin
New
MizunoJoe, I sympathize with your concerns regarding the math model not living up to your expectations. I like to remind you however that a model is used to model and not to hit a golf ball.
But to reduce your level of anxiety I have instructed the math model to swing a bit more according to your ideas.
Moreover notice that in this swing the golfer starts with a large off-plane angle but succeeds to get the club perfectly on plane prior to impact. [^]
- Status