Swinging Arms Across the Body
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lia41985
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Try and combine all the components I've talked about into your pattern and see where you're at. So:
1.) Modify your hip position at address--align them under your shoulders.
2.) Step on the right foot.
3.) Get that right elbow as high and that club as across as you can, pulling yourself as much off the left foot as you need to in order to accomplish this.
4.) Have a prolonged run up into your left side, a jog if you will. Shift left for as long as you can and if you feel like you can't do it that much then you may have not have modified your address hips position enough. As you shift, feel your hands falling while your right elbow stays high.
5.) Bust it like you know you can. You've got a powerful swing that's built on some very strong looking legs.
Please let me know how that works out for you or if anything I've written is unclear.
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Very interesting, thanks.
lia41985
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Jwat: Do you set up with your feet open? In the mirror I was trying to see how I would have to align my hips and shoulders to get them looking like yours and the only way I could get it to look like that was by setting my stance open. When I set my stance closed I had the same look with my right hip as you do with your left hip. If you do set up open, I think the alignment issue will take care of itself when you set your shoulders and hips square to each other.
Jwat
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I definitley don't consiously setup open, but my hips and shoulders could be a little.
Jwat
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Okay so today I worked on:
1. Getting my right elbow up
2. Getting my hands higher and across the line
3. Then trying to get my hands down immediatley in backswing
4. Worked a little on rotation more around, although not much yet.
So what do you guys think? I was killing my driver. Couldn't have hit it better. Right in the nut. I didn't hit my irons as good as the driver and I tended to still hit a draw. Although I did notice when I kept my left arm straighter with the irons it was only a soft draw. Definitley was hitting pull draws when trying to swing to the left still.
1. Getting my right elbow up
2. Getting my hands higher and across the line
3. Then trying to get my hands down immediatley in backswing
4. Worked a little on rotation more around, although not much yet.
So what do you guys think? I was killing my driver. Couldn't have hit it better. Right in the nut. I didn't hit my irons as good as the driver and I tended to still hit a draw. Although I did notice when I kept my left arm straighter with the irons it was only a soft draw. Definitley was hitting pull draws when trying to swing to the left still.
counterfall
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Sorry to jump in sooo late but I just read a lot of the thread earlier today. I like some of the suggestions lia is giving so far. You have a body type that should produce plenty of power so that explains your distance. On the face-on driver swing, you are throwing away your left wrist angle pretty early in the downswing (noticeable as soon as your hands are just below shoulder level) so your sequencing is a bit off. I used to look very similar but my sequencing with the irons was better than my driver during that time. However, you lose your angles even earlier with your iron swing.
I had success with training in some vertical arm drop from the top of the swing until it 'felt' like my hands reached almost waist high before adding any active muscular power with my right arm. I would drill a free-fall from the top where I would attempt to add zero muscular effort until waist high. It felt like forever at first. This took longer for me to train with the driver than the irons. I believe that is partially due to the lightness of a driver compared to an iron. I still revert and get quick from the top with the massive HIT impulse but the frequency of that is dropping.
The more vertical you can go from the top (within reason), the more you can retain your angles by not throwing your hands into the horizontal vector of the rotational forces of the pivot. Sergio is the master of this move. Spinning the shoulders too early is one reason this happens as well. Brian Manzella says that casting is also a reaction to chronic slicing.
You CAN work most of the kinks out but some of the tendencies are very deeply ingrained into your neuro-muscular pathways through thousands of repetitions. It may take thousands of correct repetitions to improve each unwanted habit. Patience and sustained effort are keys.
I had success with training in some vertical arm drop from the top of the swing until it 'felt' like my hands reached almost waist high before adding any active muscular power with my right arm. I would drill a free-fall from the top where I would attempt to add zero muscular effort until waist high. It felt like forever at first. This took longer for me to train with the driver than the irons. I believe that is partially due to the lightness of a driver compared to an iron. I still revert and get quick from the top with the massive HIT impulse but the frequency of that is dropping.
The more vertical you can go from the top (within reason), the more you can retain your angles by not throwing your hands into the horizontal vector of the rotational forces of the pivot. Sergio is the master of this move. Spinning the shoulders too early is one reason this happens as well. Brian Manzella says that casting is also a reaction to chronic slicing.
You CAN work most of the kinks out but some of the tendencies are very deeply ingrained into your neuro-muscular pathways through thousands of repetitions. It may take thousands of correct repetitions to improve each unwanted habit. Patience and sustained effort are keys.
I'm suprised the casting action hasn't been addressed earlier.I realise a sweep release is acceptable but there is a point where it just becomes a cast and I think Jwat is past that point.What saves him is good extension in the followthrough and a ball position back in his stance which prevents a flip so he can play ok with that.You pick the ball clean and bad shots will be fat or thin.
I don't say all this lightly because I have a sweep release myself.
I don't say all this lightly because I have a sweep release myself.
counterfall
New
Working on the vertical drop simply changed my release to whatever classification the yellow book may classify it as (Non-automatic random?). Lots of work though and it never ends.
lia41985
New member
Looks better! Keep trying to get your alignment right. Even if you're not standing with your feet open I think your shoulders may be open. Forget about trying to swing left by rotating more open or whatever.
Align your hips and shoulders.
Keep that right elbow higher than your hands as your hands drop straight down from the top.
Run up for as long as you can on your left foot. You don't have a "casting" problem. You have a chest not forward enough problem. The additional run up should fix that.
Let me know how that goes. I like that you're working quickly to incorporate these changes. You clearly have the talent to work them into your pattern without much time. Way to go.
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Jwat
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Thanks for the input. Yea I traditionally always hit my driver better than my irons. Maybe the loss of wrist angle in the irons is the reason. I have been focusing on this somewhat for a couple months. Kevin suggested I need high body - low hands, so after watching the tiger butch special on golf channel I started to try and drop them in my backpocket. But I think before today that was alot harder, due to be laid off with the over rotated LAFW. Tommorrow I am really going to focus on letting gravity drop the hands and see what happens.
Jwat
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I really like this. Never thought of right arm above left arm on the downswing, just on the backswing.
lia41985
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Great! I was kicking myself for not having written it earlier in my checklist for you. I hope it works out. Please let me know.
counterfall
New
Something that may help for practice is to slow the swing down to say 60% speed when hitting balls. Forget about power sometimes because if you have it now, you will have gobs of it with a tighter sequence combined with the hand path that lia is suggesting. You will have a better chance of getting some feels based on performing swings in sequence with a better tempo and rhythm, in my opinion and experience. It will also help in allowing the 'gravity drop' from the top to occur. This may be closest to Brian's Soft Draw Pattern with it's free-swinging theme. Brian may mention it in some of his YouTube posts also. Johnny Miller has a mention of it on YouTube from his DVD series as well.
Dropping the hands into the back pocket imagery is one of the gems I have gleaned reading posts on this forum. I used to try to drop them on my right ankle bone. Throwing the hands to impact position from golfer's line of sight (just outside or over the left toe line depending on eye dominance) with more of a straight line delivery path intent from the top helps me now when I revert.
Try working on small movements at a time with a bunch of repetitions followed by slow motion full swings and/or swings with your eyes closed and finally partial-speed full swings to see if any of these things seem to help. You may find a good learning pattern for yourself that way.
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lia41985
New member
Why?
lia41985
New member
Jwat,
As a former baseball player with a strong build, I think you may find this video helpful:
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dxqj47YF2uE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Don't change that release, bud.
As a former baseball player with a strong build, I think you may find this video helpful:
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dxqj47YF2uE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Don't change that release, bud.
Jwat
New
Interesting video!
lia41985
New member
Man oh man, look at that path! So much closer to zero! And that face looks pretty matched up up too
Was that pretty much a straight ball, maybe a slight cut? Keep working on everything we talked about.If you're over cutting the ball at this point you may need a little bit more tumble, especially if you're run up improves more quickly than your tumble. So keep working on that right elbow staying higher than the hands feeling on the downswing. Our next step from there will be incorporating "the jump"! So keep working and get ready to keep getting better. More upgrades and better play wait ahead!
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