Tiger Disqualified?

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One thing I think people are missing: Tiger was assessed the penalty mainly because the interview after the round revealed to the Rules commitee Tiger's INTENTIONS. That is, he said he tried to drop a yard or two back. The committee had already reviewed the video, and if you look at the video you can see he is at most 2 or 3 feet behind the location from which he played his original shot. The visual evidence is therefore NOT damning in this case, and if Tiger hadn't done a post-round interview there wouldn't have even been a penalty. This is all exacerbated by the fact that the drop rule is LESS CLEAR about where one is allowed to drop than most other rules in golf: the rule states to drop "as near as possible" to the original location, whereas most of the time when we drop near a spot we get one clublength. And from the video Tiger looks to be within one clublength of his original location.

My understanding of the rules committee's on-air explanation was that Tiger was not DQ'd because the committee itself had already looked at the video and saw that there was no infraction. If the committee had asked Tiger about the drop before he signed, they could have assessed the penalty right then, and there would be no question of a DQ. Since the committee did not ask him (because they were certain there was no penalty) then they basically created the conditions under which he could be DQ'd.

Therefore: if ever there was a reason to invoke this new rule 33 and not DQ someone, this seems like the case.

And one also has to ask: how many infractions would be found if every single player had every single drop reviewed on video? I've gone back and looked at Furyk's drop on 15 on Friday and he was NOWHERE near the line formed between the point his ball crossed into the hazard and the pin. Leishman's drop on number 10 also looked VERY questionable, as the line between were he dropped his ball and the flag just barely touched the far right margin of the hazard, but his shot from the rough crossed much closer to the middle of the hazard. If SOME drops are viewed through a microscope AFTER play is over and a card is signed, while other drops aren't looked at at all, then it makes sense to protect players with this new rule 33.

I say this as someone who once disqualified himself in a major high school tournament. Faldo would be proud of me, I guess. But in Faldo's day they didn't have HD video of every move on the course, and when a question came up, players would often interpret the rules themselves (without a rules official) and move on.
 

66er

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Honestly I love tiger woods, apart from Sergio's shot at my medinah(im young)the reasons that attracted me to the game, but maybe it is the perfect rules storm but a golf club that caves to nobody folded today, coincident of mammoth proportions such a club and such a player were entangled in this, I feel a player became bigger than the game of golf today sadly or coincidence, it's ugly either way.
 
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"as near as possible"


I don't see this as ambiguous at all. In this case it was possible to drop the ball directly over the divot mark, i.e. nothing prevented TM from dropping it there therefore it was possible to do so.


As far a video evidence, I may be wrong but it may be impossible to tell from the camera positioned behind how far back the ball was dropped (there may been other views used, I saw only one angle) - foreshortening, uselessness of video etc.


God forbid that TM wins today. This thread could go on for months.
 
Since de vicenzo "unknowingly" signed a scorecard for a stroke higher than he actually shot, can he now appeal based on this rule? Or has the statue of limitations passed??
 
There's a fundamental difference in this incident. The TV viewer who called in did so while the player was still playing. NOT after he was done or later that night. And the committee reviewed the incident WHILE he was still playing. They had the right, which I believe they should have exercised, to speak to the player BEFORE he putted out. When they chose not to do so, case closed IMO. If there is a controversy here, it would be with the green jacket autocrats. This ruling also overshadowed one of the all time worst breaks in majors history. And the quality of the pitch that followed it on one of the hardest shots on that course. Three people before that had dunked the same shot. Im betting that every member of the Augusta junta is secretly rooting against Woods so this whole thing goes quietly into that good night.
 
I just can't for the life of me remember a playing signing an incorrect scorecard and being allowed to proceed.

I also don't get this committee thing. I thought the player was responsible for knowing the rules.
 
Im betting that every member of the Augusta junta is secretly rooting against Woods so this whole thing goes quietly into that good night.

Since the beginning video games, Augusta has been approached by, and turned down millions from every golf game developer in the business regardless of who they were associated with (including Jack Nicklaus). They only opened the gates and the course for one person, and one person only.

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Maybe the viewer phone call, the rules committee meeting, the subsequent ruling by the directors are beside the point. TM, as he later admitted, did not drop as near as possible. That is a violation of the rule and subject to a two stroke penalty. He did not charge the penalty on his scorecard before signing. He is disqualified. The rest is noise.

p.s. By his own admission he dropped further back so that his shot would not go as far as the first. The fact that the second shot was affected in some way by the illegal drop is important and I think the reason for the "near as possible rule". To put it more clearly, what if the first shot was made from a bad lie but moving the ball back two yards put it in a good lie. Is the intent of the "nearest" rule is to prevent the golfer from benefiting in this way?
 
Time to take professional golf into the 21st century. Forget having the players enforce the rules, forget having them keep their opponents' scores (geez), and have the game officiated and scored by paid officials, LIKE EVERY OTHER SPORT IN THE WORLD. I don't watch professional golf to see how well they can keep score or how well they know the rules of the game. I know, the tradition. Big deal. We don't make pitchers call balks on themselves, we don't make soccer players call invalid throw-ins on themselves, we don't make offensive tackles say, "yep, I held the defensive end on that play". When there is more technology in the golf clubs than a nasa space shuttle it's time to move the way the game is officiated along the evolutionary path. Have an official tell the players what their options are when a drop rule comes up, have them watch their drops real time and then it's done. And for god sake, if nothing else is done, have an official scorekeeper for each group. Forget the nonsense about players keeping the official card. That is mickey mouse and I don't care what the tradition is.

Sorry, I can't stop...the Dustin Johnson penalty in that major a few years ago when he grounded his club in the "trap" that was trampled by spectators, the Craig Stadler DQ/penalty for putting a towel down before he knelt down to hit his shot, the Roberto Devincenzo scorecard signing that cost him the masters aren't shining moments for the golf rule book, they are embarrassments for the sport. It's one thing to help foster honor and integrity it's another to have rules that are akin to what you find in parochial grammar schools with nuns metering out corporal punishment for violators (yes, bad memories still linger), Golf rules and officials to enforce them should be in place to keep the playing field level for all the competitors. They shouldn't be in place to help mold the character of the players or to test their knowledge of the rules or to test their integrity or to test their ability to keep score and then count the score their opponent has kept for them.

Ok, I'm done. Rant off. Sorry if you read all this.
 
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When Woods wanted to bring a guest he needed a member to play in the group. Arnold and Jack are the only players EVER to become members. This club makes the Skull and Bones Society look public. Frank Stranahan would agree.
 
If the committee had asked Tiger about the drop before he signed, they could have assessed the penalty right then, and there would be no question of a DQ. Since the committee did not ask him (because they were certain there was no penalty) then they basically created the conditions under which he could be DQ'd.

Therefore: if ever there was a reason to invoke this new rule 33 and not DQ someone, this seems like the case.

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Yes; thank you.
 

ej20

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The fact that Tiger openly stated that he dropped 2 yards back and then took 2 yards off the shot clearly indicates he was not aware of a rules violation.It's also amazing people have not even mentioned his horrible luck of hitting the flagstick and going in the water in the first place.

He could easily have birdied the hole and increased his momentum rather than have it stopped dead in it's track.
 
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