Tiger on his technique

[Kevin Shields]

How ironic...considering Tiger didn't quite get ball flight and admitted so until he was on a TM when the rest of us did.

BUT

We don't know what we're talking about because we didn't play on that level.

Jim, Tiger forgot more about playing at the highest level this morning than this entire board will ever know.

 

[Kevin Shields]

The fact the Tiger couldn't recite the D Plane and won 14 majors and Johnny Miller thought he could manipulate the ball while its on the face and people think that matters shows that the masses haven't go a clue what it's like to play at that level.

 

[Weetbix]

Play being the key word Kevin?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Play being the key word Kevin?

Without question, although you'd still have to throw in striking it at that level but you're right.

 

[Lifter]

The fact the Tiger couldn't recite the D Plane and won 14 majors and Johnny Miller thought he could manipulate the ball while its on the face and people think that matters shows that the masses haven't go a clue what it's like to play at that level.

Here's the thing, Kevin: maybe even Tiger and Johnny don't understand it. They sure think they do. But maybe they don't.

If you copied the right moves as a kid and you're gifted with phenomenal athleticism, that makes up for tons and tons of misconceptions about the golf swing / ball flight laws.

I really doubt that either Tiger or Johnny can effectively help other tour players with their stock swing technique, though. They're just really athletic and do a lot of awesome stuff that they're not even aware of.

Now I'm starting to sound more like mgranato and Dariusz.......

 

[Kevin Shields]

What does that tell you? Listen to what you're saying. What difference does it make whether or not they could help other Tour players???

What do you mean, they don't understand it? Understand what?

Do you think the average guy has even a whiff of understanding about he highest levels? Shooting 20 under on national TV in front of thousands of people on a course where an average 3 handicap couldn't break 80?

I'm trying to understand what's being discussed here. To just blow it off and say they are talented isn't enough, as if all tour guys have no idea what they're doing.

 

[Lifter]

What does that tell you? Listen to what you're saying. What difference does it make whether or not they could help other Tour players???

What do you mean, they don't understand it? Understand what?

Do you think the average guy has even a whiff of understanding about he highest levels? Shooting 20 under on national TV in front of thousands of people on a course where an average 3 handicap couldn't break 80?

I'm trying to understand what's being discussed here. To just blow it off and say they are talented isn't enough, as if all tour guys have no idea what they're doing.

The more I think about it, I think it is all about talent. At that level, players might be great at course management. And they might use certain swing thoughts to help them work the ball.

But really, the vast bulk of the difference in score just comes down to talent. If us mere mortals tried to use exactly the same swing thoughts and course management that Tiger and Johnny are using, it wouldn't help all that much. Those two guys are just reeeeelly reeeeeeelly reeeeeelly talented.

 

[magicmarker]

Not that they have no idea, just that their ideas are sometime beyond comprehension, as they should be. Would it be fair to put Beethoven on a stage and instead of calling for him to play, you ask him to teach instead. I wanna hear every word spoken, but I know I'm not going to 'get' all of it.

 

[hp12c]

I wish I could spank the ball like that!

 

[spktho]

Success breeds confidence. It really doesn't matter if "great" or "optimal" technique is used if it doesn't give the desired results which ultimately comes down to the confidence to pull off the shots you need to under any type of stress on the course. It's whatever technique, thoughts, movements, feels...the player knows that will have the best chance to produce the result they want, that they use.

 

[Lifter]

What about him? He knows more about great golf than almost anyone.

Oh, I missed this comment about Johnny Miller. I'm really not sure about that one. Course management and managing emotions on Sunday, maybe. But he says all kinds of crap about swing technique that is totally clueless.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Oh, I missed this comment about Johnny Miller. I'm really not sure about that one. Course management and managing emotions on Sunday, maybe. But he says all kinds of crap about swing technique that is totally clueless.

If you had the choice to listen to Johnny Miller about golf advice or Jeff Martin, which would it be? I'm a little afraid that I know the answer already

 

[Lifter]

What's the subject? Is it swing technique or is it how to how to handle my course management and emotions coming down the stretch on Sunday?

 

[Kevin Shields]

What's the subject? Is it swing technique or is it how to how to handle my course management and emotions coming down the stretch on Sunday?

Anything on golf. Scary that you even ask.

 

[Lifter]

Anything on golf. Scary that you even ask.

Scary, eh? Ha! I think you can point to Johnny saying so much more obviously ridiculous nonsense.

I just happened to come across Greg Norman spouting this BS about swing plane:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fWbzpUsy5EU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Could he drive the ball well? Yes. Could he help me with my swing technique? Very doubtful.

 

[Lifter]

Two different people: One who knows his stuff and has learned how to successfully apply it by working with hundreds of different people on the driving range.

And another one who has incredibly valuable encyclopedic knowledge but hasn't worked with tons of different people on the driving range.

The second guy still has a lot to offer. But not for quickly fixing the impacts of a struggling golfer because he has to play in an important tournament tomorrow.

 

[Kevin Shields]

What does playing in a tournament tomorrow have to do with how a teacher fixes a student today? You've really gotten drunk on the Jeffy kool aid.

 

[Lifter]

Enjoying this conversation, Kevin!

I'm saying there's a difference between finding a quick impact fix and pursuit of "optimal." Repairman vs. architect. Correction vs. creation. That is not "Jeffy kool aid."

 

[dschultz6072]

I have learned over time that anyone who can beat you six ways to Sunday is worth listening to, at the very least.

But I have also come close to the conclusion that hitting a golf ball is a skill that really requires talent and practice to improve, at the very least.

 

[dschultz6072]

And as far as Johnny Miller goes, he didn't swing the club at 10,000fps. He didn't have doppler radar to track face angle and path and dynamic loft and angle of attack. He played based on his feels. Just because what he says might not be what necessarily happens, that doesn't mean he's just full of crap. He knows what he knows, and what he knows might be a little more important than a bologna sandwich to certain people. Any advice should be welcomed, but don't expect all advice to apply to you.

BTW, your golf swing "guru" hero calls someone's golf swing < barf >? really? what a joke. does he realize that barf golf swing can play to scratch from both sides of the ball? does he realize his own golf swing looks like a mack truck running into a train wreck? why you stick around over there is beyond me...