As much as I want Tiger to dominate, again, I would like to see this happen, but only if it leads to a long time coming union of Tiger/Manzella!! How sweet that sounds! I can't put into words how exciting that would be!!! I believe Tiger would be better, imho..
Tiger on his technique
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As much as I want Tiger to dominate, again, I would like to see this happen, but only if it leads to a long time coming union of Tiger/Manzella!! How sweet that sounds! I can't put into words how exciting that would be!!! I believe Tiger would be better, imho..
magicmarker
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Given the choice between 'knowing' the laws of ball flight or 'owning' the laws of ball flight and having no clue what was really going on... we'd take owning them all day right? If you own them then whatever you think you know would be the truth from your POV.
And if you owned the ball flight, the way Tiger did, would you even want to find out that everything you thought you knew was scientifically incorrect? I think it would be too easy to say, well he would've done better if he knew more...because that means a lot of things he did 'know' would've been forced out.
An incorrect concept, incorrectly carried out, can produce remarkable results.
And if you owned the ball flight, the way Tiger did, would you even want to find out that everything you thought you knew was scientifically incorrect? I think it would be too easy to say, well he would've done better if he knew more...because that means a lot of things he did 'know' would've been forced out.
An incorrect concept, incorrectly carried out, can produce remarkable results.
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Just saw Michelson's analysis of his sand wedge off the cart path...solid.
Not golf related, but maybe some other insight to what level some pros are or were on. I played in a pretty competitive summer league in college and played a few teams with some ex/on the way out-major leaguers. This one particular game a left handed pitcher that went on to pitch for the Cubs was throwing for us and had a mid 90's tailing fastball and a nasty hard slider. The other team had a major league catcher at the end of his career who was trying to make a come back following an injury. This catcher was hitting 5th in their line up. The 1st 4 batters went 4 up/4 down, 3 of them struck out. The catcher comes up and gets the count to 3-2. Our pitcher throws his hard slider down and in(right handed hitter), that was normally un-hittable. The hitter hits a pea(the ball looked the size of a pea) about 4 feet over my head at shortstop that I barely had time to jump for. The ball hits the bottom of the left-center field fence and the catcher ends up with a double.
Our pitcher is pissed and walking around wondering what the hell just happened. So our first baseman goes and talks to him, then our coach goes out to talk to him. So I went over to the ex-major leaguer and said "man, I'm glad I didn't get a glove on that one". He just chuckled. I then asked "how did you hit that pitch?" He quickly rattles off the pitch sequences of the previous 4 batters--about 16 pitches--and goes "I knew he was coming with the slider". I asked "even on 3-2, you were looking slider?" He gave me a look like I was an idiot because he just explained why he was looking slider and said "ya, he struck out 2 of the guys with the slider and he thought he could get me out with it."
I didn't know what the hell to say because I was still reeling from him remembering the pitch sequences from the 4 batters before him. Hell, I couldn't remember the pitch sequence in my own last at bat.
Not saying all the pros are that detailed, but I would suspect a lot are or just understand parts of the game better than most. Maybe just a little insight to what mental level some athletes are on in regards to their sport.
Not golf related, but maybe some other insight to what level some pros are or were on. I played in a pretty competitive summer league in college and played a few teams with some ex/on the way out-major leaguers. This one particular game a left handed pitcher that went on to pitch for the Cubs was throwing for us and had a mid 90's tailing fastball and a nasty hard slider. The other team had a major league catcher at the end of his career who was trying to make a come back following an injury. This catcher was hitting 5th in their line up. The 1st 4 batters went 4 up/4 down, 3 of them struck out. The catcher comes up and gets the count to 3-2. Our pitcher throws his hard slider down and in(right handed hitter), that was normally un-hittable. The hitter hits a pea(the ball looked the size of a pea) about 4 feet over my head at shortstop that I barely had time to jump for. The ball hits the bottom of the left-center field fence and the catcher ends up with a double.
Our pitcher is pissed and walking around wondering what the hell just happened. So our first baseman goes and talks to him, then our coach goes out to talk to him. So I went over to the ex-major leaguer and said "man, I'm glad I didn't get a glove on that one". He just chuckled. I then asked "how did you hit that pitch?" He quickly rattles off the pitch sequences of the previous 4 batters--about 16 pitches--and goes "I knew he was coming with the slider". I asked "even on 3-2, you were looking slider?" He gave me a look like I was an idiot because he just explained why he was looking slider and said "ya, he struck out 2 of the guys with the slider and he thought he could get me out with it."
I didn't know what the hell to say because I was still reeling from him remembering the pitch sequences from the 4 batters before him. Hell, I couldn't remember the pitch sequence in my own last at bat.
Not saying all the pros are that detailed, but I would suspect a lot are or just understand parts of the game better than most. Maybe just a little insight to what mental level some athletes are on in regards to their sport.
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So TrackMan is for mere mortals only?
There are problems no matter what way you go with a guy with TW's immense talent.
Don't coach him - how does he solve his problems?
Coach him - how do you avoid messing him up?
Unsolvable problem really.
If you look at many of the greats over the years (Nicklaus, Hogan, Nelson, Trevino, Palmer, Player, Watson, maybe even Miller) they were all blessed with a self confidence and an independence of thought and action which never left them. In contrast, Tiger is full of self doubt and always looking to others. Tiger has the right talent and the wrong personality for the longevity of these greats. IMHO Foley is burdened with same personality defect as Tiger - hence their rapport.
Look at Miller today - he knows it all, no one comes close to his knowledge and ability, the guys out there are not even a pale imitation of his super-human self, etc etc. All in his own mind admittedly but HE BELIEVES IT. And, assuming you do actually have the talent, that is of critical importance in the crazy world of top level professional sport.
The best Tiger can do is find himself a coach who has ZERO self doubt. Like BH for example. Know anyone else who fits the bill?
JJ
Don't coach him - how does he solve his problems?
Coach him - how do you avoid messing him up?
Unsolvable problem really.
If you look at many of the greats over the years (Nicklaus, Hogan, Nelson, Trevino, Palmer, Player, Watson, maybe even Miller) they were all blessed with a self confidence and an independence of thought and action which never left them. In contrast, Tiger is full of self doubt and always looking to others. Tiger has the right talent and the wrong personality for the longevity of these greats. IMHO Foley is burdened with same personality defect as Tiger - hence their rapport.
Look at Miller today - he knows it all, no one comes close to his knowledge and ability, the guys out there are not even a pale imitation of his super-human self, etc etc. All in his own mind admittedly but HE BELIEVES IT. And, assuming you do actually have the talent, that is of critical importance in the crazy world of top level professional sport.
The best Tiger can do is find himself a coach who has ZERO self doubt. Like BH for example. Know anyone else who fits the bill?
JJHere's one for the stats lovers:
Lee Trev is the ONLY guy ever to have won a major more than 6 years after his " second last" major win, ie a 6 year gap. On top of that NO ONE ever won more than one more. Oh Tiger, it ain't lookin good.
The Major Championships - Multiple Major Champions
Lee Trev is the ONLY guy ever to have won a major more than 6 years after his " second last" major win, ie a 6 year gap. On top of that NO ONE ever won more than one more. Oh Tiger, it ain't lookin good.
The Major Championships - Multiple Major Champions
All you can do is go by what they say. And Fred has basically said that he does not know much about his swing. I take him at his word.
Something that I meant to emphasize with the story that may not come through was that when I asked the question of how the major league catcher hit that pitch?, I was asking about the technique he used to get to that pitch and hit it so hard.
Notice his answer had nothing to do with technique. He already possessed the ability to hit any pitch so his focus was not placed on the technique but instead on how he could get the odds more in his favor of getting a the pitcher to throw a pitch he knew was coming.
He could have easily "guessed" wrong, but the conviction he had as he said that he knew the slider was coming was the most impressive. Placed in the same situation, most guys including the 4 previous hitters and myself, would be looking fastball and try to adjust to another pitch. The problem was that the pitcher threw his slider so hard coupled with the ball diving to your back foot, that it was near impossible to adjust...unless you knew it was coming.
I would love to fill myself with all of the self doubt that Tiger has. Seeing how he has won 25% + of all of his professional starts perhaps the self doubt route is a better way to go than the self confident and independence of thought route. Seriously has there ever been anyone who has exhibited less self doubt than Tiger? As for longevity, Tiger has won golf tournaments for 17 years. Is he a flash in the pan?
magicmarker
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Please tell me you meant down less with the wedges...
Trackman is for those that want to understand ball flight. Not necessary for those that can consistently master ball flight round after round.
Trackman is for those that want to understand ball flight. Not necessary for those that can consistently master ball flight round after round.
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magicmarker
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Ever heard a Jack Nicklaus interview? They both may seem confident and arrogant on the outside, but I don't think anyone has every had the self belief Jack did. Not even close.
I remember Brandel saying "up more." In the case of wedges maybe that does mean "down less."
I can't say that I have ever heard Jack be a self-doubter but then I can't say that i have ever heard Tiger be one either. Tiger has been the top dog ever since he started playing in junior golf. You don't win virtually everything by not having self belief. To try and rate which one of these two champions has more would be an impossible task.
hp12c
New
Hey Wulsy these are Lees wins taken from your link. Am I counting wrong? Lee won in 74 and then in 84 thats 10 years not 6 years.
lee trevino
2: 1968, 1971
2: 1971, 1972
2: 1974, 1984
magicmarker
New
Never said he did not have self belief. Said Jack had more, that's all. You can rate champions by how they won. If one was a front runner in virtually every major won, and the other won more majors in every way imaginable, I think something can be said for how comfortable they are in different positions, with respect to the rest of the field, going into the back nine on Sunday.
Jack 'lost' A LOT of majors that left him with A LOT of (18 or so) second place finishes. Unfazed.
10 is more than 6.
Interesting video. I have to say, just having a basic understanding of the ballflight laws is reeeeeelly reeeeeelly critical.
Lately, I've been playing with a talented guy who is getting lessons. Yet his downswing is still way way way underplane on every single swing. Sometimes he hits a nice push-draw. But so frequently he hits shots that either barely get off the ground or go wildly out of play.
His analysis? His "timing is off." Hmmmmm.......
Golf is definitely a hard game. No question about it. But the fact that this guy's teacher isn't teaching him to learn and understand the rudimentary basics of the D-plane is inexcusable.
And I'm not even very advanced with my knowledge! Don't have to get into horizontal swing plane, etc. etc. Just the basics.
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