Tiger Swing from Long Ago....

[mgranato]

How much does it really matter?

He's won with a good swing, with a mediocre swing, and with a bad swing. The faces on the Hall of Fame plaques would look a lot different if it was all about the swing. His incredible record has never been totally dependent on his full swing, and I don't see his future being either.

He's learning how to not be great. He's learning how to not close. He's learning how to lose focus. He's learning how to play swing. He's learning how to miss big putts. He's learning that his new competition doesn't give a damn. And he's 10 years removed from his best golf.

Looks like he's learning to be a regular pro.

 

[mjstrong]

That's deep, mgranato.

 

[kc8kir]

Here's a question: Why is Tiger so fascinated with being able to hit "all the shots?"... I mean.. you look at the great legends of the game, Nicklaus, Hogan, Trevino, Nelson, etc.... and you see they all had a preferred shot shape that they owned and played 95% percent of the time. Sure, they could try to move the ball a different way on command, and Nicklaus was able to dial in the draw from time to time, but these players all attest that to really "play" golf, one must practice and determine a shot shape that fits their eye and their swing to play under pressure.

Tiger used to play a draw. Then he tried the fade. The he was back to a draw. Now it seems like he wants to hit every shot shape in the book.

Is this a recipe for range-rat-swing-itis? If Tiger had just chosen the stinger shot and said "That's my shot.. I'll play that"... would he be much better off?

Too much tinkering, not enough winning!

 

[islandgolf629]

Tiger's swing then was breathing

Tiger's swing now is suffocating

 

[Dariusz J.]

The truth is - he never had a good full shot swing. He always wanted to own his motion, but his problem is that he never met proper coach. When I said his swing sucked when he was winning majors back then - noone listened to me. And now, you think that some Foley will bring him to the Hogan level ??? Shaking my head in disbelief.

Cheers

 

[natep]

NEVER had a good swing?

lol

His career is way past the Hogan level.

 

[lia41985]

If only he had kept his distal part in his pants...

Cheers

Bioerect Golf

 

[Dariusz J.]

NEVER had a good swing?
lol
His career is way past the Hogan level.

Not at all. How do you dare to compare this pampered jerk with a true master of the swing. Are you able to differ a great ball-to-green game from winning tournaments ? I guess not.

If only he had kept his distal part in his pants...
Cheers
Bioerect Golf

If only you have a brain...although I am not a soft-tissue expert...

Cheers

 

[GPM1985]

How do you dare to compare this pampered jerk with a true master of the swing. Are you able to differ a great ball-to-green game from winning tournaments?

Your vision is so narrow it astounds me. I'm not sure if you realize that playing good tournament golf is about more than hitting pretty shots.

Did you ever watch Hogan hit balls or play, in person?

 

[Kevin Shields]

The truth is - he never had a good full shot swing. He always wanted to own his motion, but his problem is that he never met proper coach. When I said his swing sucked when he was winning majors back then - noone listened to me. And now, you think that some Foley will bring him to the Hogan level ??? Shaking my head in disbelief.

Cheers

I respectfully disagree. Tiger at his best could do things with a ball that Hogan may not have been able to do. No one here has actually seen Hogan play so its all just legend. However, its obvious that Hogan struck it above his peers for the most part but his true genious may have been his grit and grind, not his swing mechanics that even Byron Nelson said never really hit it close to the hole all that much. I just wish people would stop the madness over Hogans swing. By all accounts it was alot of compensations along with heavily tricked up equipment. Trying to copy or study it is really tough at best, impossible maybe.

I love Hogan but I dont view him as a master of swing mechanics anymore than Snead or Nelson. This mystique and "secret" rubbish has gotten way out of hand the more time passes.....IMHO.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Your vision is so narrow it astounds me. I'm not sure if you realize that playing good tournament golf is about more than hitting pretty shots.

Did you ever watch Hogan hit balls or play, in person?

Unfortunately, no. But I read what professionals who witnessed him play said. And there is a thread, started on not so a popular forum as this one but...shows how big was Hogan's difference over ANYONE in golf. Accuse them of lieing. Accuse Dickinson, Venturi, Nicklaus, Player on lieying.
What a sad moment of truth.

Chers

 

[Dariusz J.]

I respectfully disagree. Tiger at his best could do things with a ball that Hogan may not have been able to do. No one here has actually seen Hogan play so its all just legend. However, its obvious that Hogan struck it above his peers for the most part but his true genious may have been his grit and grind, not his swing mechanics that even Byron Nelson said never really hit it close to the hole all that much. I just wish people would stop the madness over Hogans swing. By all accounts it was alot of compensations along with heavily tricked up equipment. Trying to copy or study it is really tough at best, impossible maybe.

I love Hogan but I dont view him as a master of swing mechanics anymore than Snead or Nelson. This mystique and "secret" rubbish has gotten way out of hand the more time passes.....IMHO.

I respectfuly disagree, too. Woods never could match Hogan standards in the game (not mentioning outside it...LMAO). Woods can be a poor copy of Hogan's silhouette ONLY when people believe it. And I can assure you, people are wiser than you think, at least in Poland.
Never ever use Hogan's name if you want to prove anything. A good advice to you.

Cheers

 

[GPM1985]

Never ever use Hogan's name if you want to prove anything.

You do this exclusively, if you hadn't noticed. It may be time to shelve the potato vodka.

Kevin mentioned it, but you might want to do some research on the mind which allowed Hogan to develop that swing. I think the Hawk's intellect and mental toughness are way more intriguing than his swing.

 

[Dariusz J.]

You do this exclusively, if you hadn't noticed. It may be time to shelve the potato vodka.

Kevin mentioned it, but you might want to do some research on the mind which allowed Hogan to develop that swing. I think the Hawk's intellect and mental toughness are way more intriguing than his swing.

Are you Kevin's attorney ? If not, why do you answer questions directed to him ? Noone asked you to do so.

As regards Polish vodka - do not EVER mention such a dangerous name for you. It can make you lie down sooner that you write your post here.

Cheers

 

[natep]

I recently read the book "The Match" by Mark Frost, about a money game at Cypress Point between Hogan/Nelson and Venturi/Ward. It is a great read with lots of golf history and I recommend it to any golf fan. It made me realize just how awesome Nelson really was, and how little acclaim he seems to get compared to Hogan. If Nelson hadnt retired in his early 30's we might not even be talking about Hogan today, and Hogan likely wouldnt have had nearly as much success as he did after Nelson basically quit the game.

 

[footwedge]

I respectfuly disagree, too. Woods never could match Hogan standards in the game (not mentioning outside it...LMAO). Woods can be a poor copy of Hogan's silhouette ONLY when people believe it. And I can assure you, people are wiser than you think, at least in Poland.
Never ever use Hogan's name if you want to prove anything. A good advice to you.

Cheers

Tiger has already met and passed many of Hogan's "standards". 14 majors, etc. and you have based your "standard of teaching" on Hogan so i guess you can't prove anything by your own "standard"as you invoke his name constantly to try and add to what you "think" he did, in reality your just guessing. Cheers.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Tiger has already met and passed many of Hogan's "standards". 14 majors, etc. and you have based your "standard of teaching" on Hogan so i guess you can't prove anything by your own "standard"as you invoke his name constantly to try and add what you "think" he did, in reality your just guessing. Cheers.

Of course. He's already met all standards...LMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Are you mad ? Think before you write something - thinking does not hurt LOL.

Cheers

 

[Matt 4-L]

I will go with Jack who has seen all the greats including Tiger and says nobody hit it better than Hogan...I also agree that Nelson doesn't get enough credit for how great he was. I have read and watched everything on Hogan and he had a hard time beating Nelson, Nelson always had his number.

I view it like art, to me Hogans swing is a picasso and the rest are not but that's the beauty of art, it's all subjective. Somebody else might view Faldo as a picasso.

 

[natep]

Hogan has a great looking swing, no doubt.

But supposedly he thought it was pathetic how people tried to copy his swing.

He agreed to teach John Schlee at some point, and one of his conditions was that if he caught Schlee trying to copy his swing, their student/teacher relationship was over.

 

[ScottRob]

This is an old saw! I think the comments related to Byron Nelson have merit. My pops was well acquainted with Bobby Locke. Locke said that Byron Nelson was the best to ever lace em' up. This was post-WWII when Nelson was at the end of it all. In terms Of tee to green he is unsurpassed, but he is lost in the shuffle because he had very little mystique about him.

I have a short Byron Nelson story. My wife calls it my stalker story. I was a college freshman new to the States. I "befriended" a young lady from Grapevine, TX. She mentioned that there was some famous old golfer that lived on a ranch nearby (Roanoke as it turns out.) I knew instantly who it was (afterall his dream was to have a ranch.) So, I paid Mr. Nelson a visit. Nothing ventured nothing gained, right? Fortunately for his privacy he was not in. I wrote him a short note. I expressed my admiration, and for points I added that the late Mr. Locke was a friend of my fathers.

3 days later I recieved a hand written note. It read:

Nice to hear from you! I am sorry but I do not wish people to come to my home to see me and ask questions. That would be nice but I don't have the time to do so. Sincerely Byron Nelson.

I was so pleased to recieve the note that I never felt chided. He also included a signature card autograph, as well as a b&w publicity photo (As honorary starter at Augusta) autographed to me. So I recieved four autographs (I kept the manilla envelope that he sent it all in)

I never grew up fixated on Hogan. The stories that came to me through my Dad from a 4 time Open champion (that was dominant in America during the years he cared to compete there) said that Nelson was peerless tee to green.So I was always a Lord Byron fan. Locke also had a high regard for Snead, but emphasized over and over that not only was Nelson a consumate gentleman, but also the best tee to green....followed by....?