Top teachers getting some big fees.....

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Michael Jacobs

Super Moderator
How much would it have been worth to me to know what I know now in 1982?

$250,000 minimum

How much would it have been worth to me to know that TGM wasn't a "work of science" in 1987?

$100,000 minimum

How much would it have been worth to me to know the D-Plane in 2000?

$50,000 minimum

How much would it have been worth to me to know what we know about the Release in 2005?

$20,000 minimum


Just saying....


Brian,

How much would it be worth knowing that a #1 player in the world measured on 3D had the following right wrist bend measurements:

CLUB AT LAST PARALLEL 55 degrees of right wrist bend

IMPACT 18 degrees of right wrist bend

Post Impact when the hands reached the left leg - 0 degrees of right wrist bend
 
Brian,

How much would it be worth knowing that a #1 player in the world measured on 3D had the following right wrist bend measurements:

CLUB AT LAST PARALLEL 55 degrees of right wrist bend

IMPACT 18 degrees of right wrist bend

Post Impact when the hands reached the left leg - 0 degrees of right wrist bend

I have not clue how much it would be worth Donald knowing those measurements. But I do know how much it is worth too him NOT knowing:

$9,693,609
 

dbl

New
Scotly, re post 60 - that's fine for you, but not real polite to decry the host's rates out of hand. A general golf board might be better.

Brian is imo a bargain. As he referred to his videos, he undercharges.
 
Scotly, re post 60 - that's fine for you, but not real polite to decry the host's rates out of hand. A general golf board might be better.

Brian is imo a bargain. As he referred to his videos, he undercharges.

I agree with you and Brian, re the online videos. They are a bargain. I have bought them. (But i do have to log out of this forum to see the videos I bought while not registered)


I posted my opinion, on the costs charged by some instructors for personal lessons. Not just his but in reference to the general theme of this thread.
 

dbl

New
Well it's pretty easy to read your post as if you were saying anyone who pays greater than $50 or $65 an hour is a sucker. If you just meant those willing to pay the $500 or $10,000 rates...well, it could have been clearer.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
I am not asking, "How much it is worth to you," I am saying, "How much it is worth too me !"

I've asked dozens of golfers—not teachers—GOLFERS, this question:

How much would having learned a really good grip be worth, if you learned it in your first month of golf?

$500 is the stock answer.

The thing is, I can, and have, received the same basic instruction, these teachers are teaching for $50 an hour. There is one here who has a student that was on the junior team that went to Scotland last month, as well as numerous college and mini-your players. He charges a whopping $65 per hour.

Like Barnum said, "They are born every minute".

Plenty of really solid teachers charging less than $75.

The REASON that I can charge $150 & $200 is I can analyze quicker, and get you to do it quicker, than a smart "regular" teacher.

Trust me, I was the GC on the last half of my house construction, and I'd pay triple to get guys who did it right & faster.

I agree with you and Brian, re the online videos. They are a bargain. I have bought them. (But i do have to log out of this forum to see the videos I bought while not registered)


I posted my opinion, on the costs charged by some instructors for personal lessons. Not just his but in reference to the general theme of this thread.

I get it.

But some of the guys who charge more than me are worth it.
 

natep

New
Brian,

How much would it be worth knowing that a #1 player in the world measured on 3D had the following right wrist bend measurements:

CLUB AT LAST PARALLEL 55 degrees of right wrist bend

IMPACT 18 degrees of right wrist bend

Post Impact when the hands reached the left leg - 0 degrees of right wrist bend

This is an excellent bit of info IMO. When you also consider that picture Brian posted of the clubface being square to the target well before impact, it gives you a very good idea of exactly how the wrists are releasing during the last few moments before impact in the #1 player in the worlds swing.
 
I've asked dozens of golfers—not teachers—GOLFERS, this question:

How much would having learned a really good grip be worth, if you learned it in your first month of golf?

$500 is the stock answer.

That is interesting. i would be interested in that type of lesson format. A certain price for the grip and set-up. Then a certain price for the takeaway, to the top, transition, downswing, impact, etc. Seems it would motivate the instructor, as well as the student.

I had a friend/golf pro tell me one time at a PGA Pro event, that Jim Mclean told him re giving lessons, "not to sell the car" in one lesson. Sell it a piece at a time. The preceding format would end those types.
 
That is interesting. i would be interested in that type of lesson format. A certain price for the grip and set-up. Then a certain price for the takeaway, to the top, transition, downswing, impact, etc. Seems it would motivate the instructor, as well as the student.

I had a friend/golf pro tell me one time at a PGA Pro event, that Jim Mclean told him re giving lessons, "not to sell the car" in one lesson. Sell it a piece at a time. The preceding format would end those types.

Ok, so if I understand correctly, you're saying that some parts are more valuable than others, ie, you shouldn't be charged as much to learn the set-up as say, the transition.

So, maybe the set-up is a $35 lesson, and the transition is a $65 dollar lesson. And, if I give you a set-up lesson, and you either already have it perfect, or learn it in 5 minutes...I can then take the $35 and go over to the snack bar for some chilli cheese fries? That would be sweet.
 

dbl

New
Grip $100
posture, setup,ball position $50
backswing$100
transition $250
mid downswing/pivot $250
release $1500
impact $500
follow through $50

That's what I'd have been willing to pay for the right info. I've been searching for what release is since 2002 and finally feel like I have an idea.
 
Ok, so if I understand correctly, you're saying that some parts are more valuable than others, ie, you shouldn't be charged as much to learn the set-up as say, the transition.

So, maybe the set-up is a $35 lesson, and the transition is a $65 dollar lesson. And, if I give you a set-up lesson, and you either already have it perfect, or learn it in 5 minutes...I can then take the $35 and go over to the snack bar for some chilli cheese fries? That would be sweet.

Teach the golf swing in increments and charge accordingly. A Golf pro says I can teach you the grip and set-up for a stated amount, (whatever the amount), and at the end the student will have the grip and set-up perfected. Then charge another stated amount for the backswing, and at the end the student has perfected it, for that price, however long it takes the Pro.

Verses, the Golf Pro charging a per lesson fee, and fixing whatever the student erring that day. I do not know how it would work out but it is interesting. My wife is an educator and at the end of the year her students are tested against the other teachers students and the scores are compared. This is how they can tell which teacher is effective and weeds the ineffective ones out.
 

AJV

New
How much would it have been worth to me to know what I know now in 1982?

$250,000 minimum

How much would it have been worth to me to know that TGM wasn't a "work of science" in 1987?

$100,000 minimum

How much would it have been worth to me to know the D-Plane in 2000?

$50,000 minimum

How much would it have been worth to me to know what we know about the Release in 2005?

$20,000 minimum


Just saying....


If you had been able to buy the info, it wouldn't be as valuable as it is now that you have discovered through teaching and researching. You wouldn't own it the same way, you wouldn't teach it as passionately as you teach it now.

Thus, this info for you is worth more than any amount of money.

And perhaps, since you didn't buy the info with money, you don't need to think in terms of getting a return for a investment of nearly half of million. Instead you can charge what you think is fair.
 
Teach the golf swing in increments and charge accordingly. A Golf pro says I can teach you the grip and set-up for a stated amount, (whatever the amount), and at the end the student will have the grip and set-up perfected. Then charge another stated amount for the backswing, and at the end the student has perfected it, for that price, however long it takes the Pro.

Verses, the Golf Pro charging a per lesson fee, and fixing whatever the student erring that day. I do not know how it would work out but it is interesting. My wife is an educator and at the end of the year her students are tested against the other teachers students and the scores are compared. This is how they can tell which teacher is effective and weeds the ineffective ones out.

Of course, you have to have a clear definition of "perfected." Who determines that? The golf pro would tend to define perfect too early and the student would define it rather late--I'm not saying who's correct.

So, maybe we can put together a tribunal of sorts that determines whether the student has perfected a specific piece of the swing, for which the pro is awaiting payment. But there needs to be a commitee to elect the members of the tribunal, as well as another commitee responsible for oversight of the the tribunal. The conflicts of interest must be eradicated to the best of our ability.

But, even having access to the tribunal and oversight commitee, we must put in place a process that allows either the pro or the student to submit an appeal, if the initial judgement of the tribunal is felt by one of the parties to be unjust.

And, of course we must pay all the members of the comittee and tribunal, which could be taken out of the lesson fee's.

But, that will create a whole other conflict of interest because the tribunal will tend to side more often with the pro, in the interest of revenue generation.

So, then maybe instead, the entire organization can have fundraisers that ask for donations from prospective students that have an interest in continuing proper oversight and removing corruption from the lesson giving process.

Obviously, the big donners would expect the benefit of the doubt when they submit a case to the tribunal.

I think this system would work if everyone acted reasonably.

Of course, it wouldn't hurt to have a small staff of people that could officially define "reasonable."
 
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Virtuoso - mid-wife to big government - you raise interesting issues, but I feel that a concise answer is nearer to hand.

In the event of a dispute, I'd have thought that any disputant could post video of the swing in question to this very forum - and there will be no difficulty in obtaining an opinion on whether a particular component has been mastered. Not only that, but many opinions would be given without charge.

In the (surely unlikely) event of conflicting opinions being offered, the issue could be referred upwards to the house of golfwrx and their snazzy online polling function. But that would be rare.

That just leaves the matter of reasonableness - which I'm sure will evolve with time, like most species.
 
Virtuoso - mid-wife to big government - you raise interesting issues, but I feel that a concise answer is nearer to hand.

In the event of a dispute, I'd have thought that any disputant could post video of the swing in question to this very forum - and there will be no difficulty in obtaining an opinion on whether a particular component has been mastered. Not only that, but many opinions would be given without charge.

In the (surely unlikely) event of conflicting opinions being offered, the issue could be referred upwards to the house of golfwrx and their snazzy online polling function. But that would be rare.

That just leaves the matter of reasonableness - which I'm sure will evolve with time, like most species.

That is bloody brilliant my little British friend. Now we are getting somewhere.
 
Why thank you, dear Watson. But I insist that we share the credit. Had you not had the insight that disputes might arise and need to be settled, it would certainly never have occured to me.

Best regards
Crick
 
Why thank you, dear Watson. But I insist that we share the credit. Had you not had the insight that disputes might arise and need to be settled, it would certainly never have occured to me.

Best regards
Crick

Sweet. Let's be co-chairs of a commitee ourselves. I'll be "Master of the Obvious" and you can be "Master of the not quite as Obvious."

I think this is the beginning of a beautiful relationship.
 
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