Tumble, no Tug drill

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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
hp12c said:
Hey Kev On the rope drill, I noticed,sensed, felt a very lagging LCT and also I cant put any FATS on the rope is that what u noticed,sensed, felt and or anything else I may be missing? If Im correct on no FATS how is the rope straight at the bottom of swing? Thanks for your help.
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Hp, I do a rope drill completely different. The rope is on the ground so there is no takeaway.
 
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OLIVER1

New
Eyeoffish said:
All I can say is the less I tug the better I hit the ball. (try typing that sentence and not have it sound dirty)
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Yep.
What with all the yanking and tugging, and jerking and pulling; with all the slices on hookers and taking relief, etc. it's a mystery how a certain genre of, ahem, movie makers and their awful play-on-words titles have passed us by with barely a peep.
Myriad possibilities, surely...
 
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ParHunter

New
bcoak said:
Do not get what he is trying to accomplish here. Thoughts?
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Kevin, correct me if I am wrong, but the tumble drill helps with 'setting the intend' of starting the release of the hands (basically telling the body to apply torque around the coupling point) and it helps with 'replacing the left arm'?
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
ParHunter said:
Kevin, correct me if I am wrong, but the tumble drill helps with 'setting the intend' of starting the release of the hands (basically telling the body to apply torque around the coupling point) and it helps with 'replacing the left arm'?
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I think that's a good way of putting it.
 
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Gravedigga

New
Do any of you guys use the Whippy Tempomaster? I used it a few years ago, but then hooked up with a TGM instructor and it didn't really work so I put it away. I took it out of the closet it a few months ago and it's a great tool in helping with my release.
 
JEREMY5577

JEREMY5577

New
Kevin Shields has many good posts on this thread, you may have to go through the whole thread and read them all to answer your questions about "tumble torque". Here is another one he posted on a different thread, but I'm cut and pasting it over here. Hope he doesn't mind.

To think that the outward "tumbling" of the clubhead isn't something that a lot of people are aware of, would be inaccurate at best. Like wulsy said, lot of smart people out there. Many, many players would be well served to work only on that IMO. Other things fall into place magically when you allow yourself to apply pressure outward on the face.
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66er

New
Really working hard on this, thank for the video Kevin for bring this to our attention. Im sure this has been discussed to death but why is tugging bad? Makes it harder to apply force about the coupling point, would love to know.
 
Shot Limit

Shot Limit

New
I would guess that tugging forfeits your "intent", (unless your intent has built-in compensations) and pulls the club and hands out of the alignment that you established during the back-swing and transition. Then you are forced to compensate in some manner to save the shot.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
SteveT said:
Anatomically and proprioceptively incorrect if not outright wrong. You can't imprint or even recall a high speed move by repeating it in slo-mo. The neuro-muscular pathways are totally different. It's ignorant desperation.... totally wrong 'feel' too.
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Steve,

You obviously aren't a golf teacher.

Here is....


Brian Manzella's RULE #1 of Golf Teaching


There is what the TEACHER wants the student to do > There is what the student THINKS the teacher wants him to do > there is what the student is actually doing.

Never forget it.



That is why the whole bass-akward way of teaching positions and moves that should be EFFECTS and not CAUSES can still work a certain percentage of golfers.

My batting average went way, way up when I stopped teaching positions and moves that I KNOW ARE EFFECTS, but nothing is 100%.

And all of that folks is a stone cold fact.
 
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SteveT

Guest
Brian .... I'm not a golf teacher, but neither are you a scientist. Besides, you seem to be agreeing with me.

Golfswing = 10% Newtonian Physics + 90% Human Perception and Motor Control

At least you're 10% ahead of all the other golf teachers... and your golf teaching experience may even qualify for some of the rest.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
SteveT said:
Anatomically and proprioceptively incorrect if not outright wrong. You can't imprint or even recall a high speed move by repeating it in slo-mo. The neuro-muscular pathways are totally different. It's ignorant desperation.... totally wrong 'feel' too.
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If that's what you're going with, fine by me. I'll just as soon go with what works.
 
S

SteveT

Guest
Kevin Shields said:
If that's what you're going with, fine by me. I'll just as soon go with what works.
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It 'works' in your opinion? Would you care to back that up with scientific certainty, or do you revert to anecdotal evidence?

Chew on this: The neuro-muscular pathways between high and low speed human motion are very different, and one cannot instantly translate into the other.

So what makes the "drill" work?
 
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birly-shirly

New
Steve - there's the science of what to do. And there's the science of how to learn what to do.

Which do you know something about?

I can't help but think that being able to spell "neuro-muscular pathways" somehow trumps the collective experience of 10s of thousands of students and teachers of dance, music, martial arts, tennis. In your mind, that is...
 
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