TWO NEW FREE VIDEOS on the Pivot and the Release by Brian Manzella

[hrely]

I have a question. Does the sit down move then pull up or go normal have any affect on accuracy? Is it more of a power move for longer clubs and as you get to the short clubs where accuracy is paramount be avoided? Or should it be done throughout the bag?

Throughout the bag. See Short shot pivot video.

 

[GeoffDickson]

So the purple arrows represent the force you would apply to the club if you wanted the clubhead (e.g. sledgehammer) to smash through the wall (i.e. right edge of the image) with a descending blow?

 

[spktho]

I have a question. Does the sit down move then pull up or go normal have any affect on accuracy? Is it more of a power move for longer clubs and as you get to the short clubs where accuracy is paramount be avoided? Or should it be done throughout the bag?

I have only been working on this for a couple weeks back from knee surgery, but for me the longer clubs feel like more sit down, but it may just be how long I am sitting. For example with the driver being the longest club, it feels like I have to wait longer in the sit during the transition to allow the arms/hands to get the club going for the downswing. I still do the same backswing and sit on full swings with the shorter clubs, I just don't have to sit for that long to get them going into the downswing. That changes some when hitting a 3/4 shot, though and I still have some work to do on those shots.

If I don't sit properly or don't allow enough time for the sit, my accuracy it terrible--pulls or slices.

 

[Dariusz J.]

I have a question. Does the sit down move then pull up or go normal have any affect on accuracy? Is it more of a power move for longer clubs and as you get to the short clubs where accuracy is paramount be avoided? Or should it be done throughout the bag?

As Hrely said, throughout the bag definitely. It is a power move and it is more visible in case of long hitters who use the ground more but it is a quite natural and unintentional for all golfers with a correct sequencing (the rear part becomes inertial while the active one lead one lead the motion taking over the momentum after transition + subconscious pressing into the ground to gain energy = hence the "squat"). Nothing weird or intentional necessary.
Not all great ballstrikers had the squat as big as Snead or Nicklaus but these were truly longest hitters that time. Usually, their squat was moderate - see Hogan, Moe, Knudsen or Trevino but their consistency better almost in all cases as well with a decent length from the tee.

Cheers

 

[hrely]

As Hrely said, throughout the bag definitely. It is a power move and it is more visible in case of long hitters who use the ground more but it is a quite natural and unintentional for all golfers with a correct sequencing (the rear part becomes inertial while the active one lead one lead the motion taking over the momentum after transition + subconscious pressing into the ground to gain energy = hence the "squat"). Nothing weird or intentional necessary.
Not all great ballstrikers had the squat as big as Snead or Nicklaus but these were truly longest hitters that time. Usually, their squat was moderate - see Hogan, Moe, Knudsen or Trevino but their consistency better almost in all cases as well with a decent length from the tee.

Cheers

Also visible in the swing of Nick Price, in his prime perhaps the premier iron player on Tour.

 

[rogerdodger]

Thanks for this video Brian, it is terrific. One thing I have noticed with my swing, I tug less and the hands and club go wider from the top if my left wrist is under the shaft at the top. If I get laid off, the tug takes over. Is that unique or something that has been noticed on the practice tee?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Thanks for this video Brian, it is terrific. One thing I have noticed with my swing, I tug less and the hands and club go wider from the top if my left wrist is under the shaft at the top. If I get laid off, the tug takes over. Is that unique or something that has been noticed on the practice tee?

My opinion is often the first time a person feels pressure they will want to tug on it, or use it. That's why most will lay it off in the downswing a bit.

 

[hrely]

My opinion is often the first time a person feels pressure they will want to tug on it, or use it. That's why most will lay it off in the downswing a bit.

Kevin, When I get laid off I use a slight twist away motion as I start down. After watching the video I also think this serves to apply some tangential force and lessen the tug feeling. Does this make any sense?Thanks

 

[mgranato]

You know that feeling you get when you're in a large assemble and you swear the speaker is only saying things that apply to you? Unintentionally uncomfortable being singled out like that, but dang if all don't apply.

With the amount/quality of information you guys have compiled, it really does make for an unfair fight. Love it!

 

[Keefer]

Assuming you speak about backswing phase I completely disagree with that statement. The best ballstrikers ALWAYS let the lead knee bend in and lead heel go off the ground (starting from the outside edge) because of quite a few important reasons.

Cheers

Then we do disagree. You can bring the left heel up and still not collapse toward the right knee. Bobby Jones collapsed his the most, but most of todays Tour players bend the knee more in toward the ball and not collapse it back toward the right knee. Certainly nowhere near as much as Jones did.

For the average hacker collapsing the left knee toward the right knee is a recipe for inconsistency. It can bend in slightly, but collapsing too much toward the right knee causes more problems like swaying, over turning of the hips and getting too far over on your right side making it difficult getting back over to your left side.

If you want to bottom out early and hit fat shots then by all means let that left knee collapse and almost kiss the right knee going back.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Then we do disagree. You can bring the left heel up and still not collapse toward the right knee. Bobby Jones collapsed his the most, but most of todays Tour players bend the knee more in toward the ball and not collapse it back toward the right knee. Certainly nowhere near as much as Jones did.

For the average hacker collapsing the left knee toward the right knee is a recipe for inconsistency. It can bend in slightly, but collapsing too much toward the right knee causes more problems like swaying, over turning of the hips and getting too far over on your right side making it difficult getting back over to your left side.

If you want to bottom out early and hit fat shots then by all means let that left knee collapse and almost kiss the right knee going back.

Then we disagree even more. First, I do not care about today's tour players, my studies focus on true good ballstrikers. No great ballstriker ever did this with lead knee.
Secondly, both keeping the lead heel down as well as not letting the knee bend in is a totally unnatural and subconscious-unfriendly move that causes timing issues - when we let the knee bend in it reaches passively the biolimit, when we bend it forward there is no biolimit unless we touch the ground with our asses.
Thirdly, it does not cause swaying at all when the lead side is inertial during backswing as it should be; OTOH, it rather may induce a wrong rear hip joint action during the backswing.
Next, it causes problems in coronal plane balance because of shaky bend forward issues. Next, it may cause problems in a correct weight shift during the backswing - lack of proper weight shift to the rear side.
Lastly, not letting the knee bend inside prevents the lead heel from lifting, i.e. take off a very important piece of puzzle from a biokinetically great motion. But it is a topic for another huge debate.
These are just the most straight consequences.

Cheers

 

[ZAP]

I am going to have to try that other drill for the out toss. I always feel/look like I do not get the club low enough before I go normal. I feel like this is part of the reason why my attack angles tend to be high. Wish I had watched that video before I snuck out to play nine today. I guess that is why God created weekends.

 

[Keefer]

Then we disagree even more. First, I do not care about today's tour players, my studies focus on true good ballstrikers. No great ballstriker ever did this with lead knee.
Secondly, both keeping the lead heel down as well as not letting the knee bend in is a totally unnatural and subconscious-unfriendly move that causes timing issues - when we let the knee bend in it reaches passively the biolimit, when we bend it forward there is no biolimit unless we touch the ground with our asses.
Thirdly, it does not cause swaying at all when the lead side is inertial during backswing as it should be; OTOH, it rather may induce a wrong rear hip joint action during the backswing.
Next, it causes problems in coronal plane balance because of shaky bend forward issues. Next, it may cause problems in a correct weight shift during the backswing - lack of proper weight shift to the rear side.
Lastly, not letting the knee bend inside prevents the lead heel from lifting, i.e. take off a very important piece of puzzle from a biokinetically great motion. But it is a topic for another huge debate.
These are just the most straight consequences.

Cheers

You lose me when you say you don't care what todays Tour players are doing. The fact is for the most part they don't collapse their front knee towards their back knee. If the best players in the world don't do it that says a lot IMO. And lifting the left heel is an optional thing.

Try hitting a driver while on your knees. You'll find that weight shift is very much over rated. What you'll discover is the more stable the lower body is the more consistent your ball striking is. Letting the left knee collapse toward your right leg makes your lower body more un-stable, thus more inconsistent.

I'll stick with what the Tour players do and you stick with your studies. There's theory and then there's practice. In theory the front knee collapse toward the back knee may make sense to you, in real life practice it does not. If it did, you'd see more of it, which you don't.

 

[hrely]

You lose me when you say you don't care what todays Tour players are doing. The fact is for the most part they don't collapse their front knee towards their back knee. If the best players in the world don't do it that says a lot IMO. And lifting the left heel is an optional thing.

Try hitting a driver while on your knees. You'll find that weight shift is very much over rated. What you'll discover is the more stable the lower body is the more consistent your ball striking is. Letting the left knee collapse toward your right leg makes your lower body more un-stable, thus more inconsistent.

I'll stick with what the Tour players do and you stick with your studies. There's theory and then there's practice. In theory the front knee collapse toward the back knee may make sense to you, in real life practice it does not. If it did, you'd see more of it, which you don't.

This is an interesting point for me and I would like some clarification. First I don't believe Dariusz is advocating a "collapse"
of the knee but rather allowing it to react and "bend in." Keefer, do you recommend the knee break forward and at a slight angle toward the ball? Could the difference be just one of degree or is it more fundamental? Thanks

 

[Kevin Shields]

I agree that they are talking about two completely different things.

 

[Dariusz J.]

You lose me when you say you don't care what todays Tour players are doing. The fact is for the most part they don't collapse their front knee towards their back knee. If the best players in the world don't do it that says a lot IMO. And lifting the left heel is an optional thing.

I prefer to observe what the best ballstrikers ever did and not what current best players do.

Lifting the heel can be optional only if you treat it as a conscious action. It happens unintentionally as a result of correct sequencing in a biokinetically correct motion for a biped. Thus, it is not an optional thing. If it does not happen, especially with long clubs, it means something is not correct, period.

Try hitting a driver while on your knees. You'll find that weight shift is very much over rated. What you'll discover is the more stable the lower body is the more consistent your ball striking is. Letting the left knee collapse toward your right leg makes your lower body more un-stable, thus more inconsistent.

Can you hit as far from your knees as from your feet ? I bet no. Hitting from the feet gives more opportunity and requires different actions because of two more joints in both legs. It requires a proper weight shift to maximize one's potential.
As said in my previous post the balance in both anatomical planes are being achieved properly ONLY when one side of the body is inertial and the other active. Therefore, your claim that letting the left knee collapse toward your right leg makes your lower body more un-stable, thus more inconsistent is simply wrong. Sorry.

I'll stick with what the Tour players do and you stick with your studies. There's theory and then there's practice. In theory the front knee collapse toward the back knee may make sense to you, in real life practice it does not. If it did, you'd see more of it, which you don't.

Stick with what you wish. And if the lead knee bending inside made sense for the greatest ballstrikers ever, in their practice in winning tournaments, how you can say it is a theory only ? Think !

This is an interesting point for me and I would like some clarification. First I don't believe Dariusz is advocating a "collapse" of the knee but rather allowing it to react and "bend in."

Exactly this. If the lead side in the sagittal plane is passive and inertial the lead knee must bend inside when we need a correct deep hip turn during the backswing. Bending the leg forward and not allowing bending it inside brings unnecessary tensions and reminds me dreaded X-Factor silliness. I do not know what "collapse" means either.

I agree that they are talking about two completely different things.

I am talking about the knee bent to the inside (towards the rear leg); I suspect Keefer talks about knee bending forward (like they advocate e.g. in S&T swing). The difference is obvious as well as effects.

Cheers

 

[footwedge]

I totally agree with Dariusz.

 

[bjfox10]

I prefer to observe what the best ballstrikers ever did and not what current best players do.

Dariusz,

Do you feel that the best ball strikers played in a pervious era or would you include some that play in today's game? Just curious.

I apologize if this is thread jacking.

 

[Dariusz J.]

I totally agree with Dariusz.

Thank you.

I prefer to observe what the best ballstrikers ever did and not what current best players do.

Dariusz,

Do you feel that the best ball strikers played in a pervious era or would you include some that play in today's game? Just curious.

I apologize if this is thread jacking.

The majority of the true great ballstrikers played yesteryear. Today's game and today's tools specifics produce much more of ballwhackers than ballstrikers. Yet there are pearls like Furyk or Durant today with Manassero coming out soon. People though are more in awe of Sadlowskis, Johnsons and Watsons today.

Cheers

 

[niblick1]

I am going to have to try that other drill for the out toss. I always feel/look like I do not get the club low enough before I go normal. I feel like this is part of the reason why my attack angles tend to be high. Wish I had watched that video before I snuck out to play nine today. I guess that is why God created weekends.

My exact thought. Now I can't wait for some range-worthy weather.

Seeing the example of when and where Rory starts to "push the club through the wall" and how low his hands are when he does that before going normal clears up a mistaken impression I had.

Great videos. Thanks so much, Brian.