TWO NEW FREE VIDEOS on the Pivot and the Release by Brian Manzella

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Actually,you cannot be farther from truth. Benefitting from the natural body limitations brings at least partial automatism to the next motion event. Imagine a wall that the joint bounces from with gained momentum - the knee will have no option left but to lead the parade and bow outside without any conscious thoughts. Bowing the joint in has a very small RoM when the lead foot is being positioned optimally (flared out ca. 25-30 degrees).
That's how the creation of famous squat becomes possible because the rear side (rear knee) remains inertial and the distance between knee joints of both legs must increase.
Not mentioning here how it is easier to perform a proper CoG shift in the pelvic area.
Of course one can do it all consciously, like trying to bow out the knee from neutral position - but why make everything harder ?

Cheers

I guess we agree to disagree. IMO collapsing the lead knee laterally toward your rear leg causes a host of problems. Once that space between your knees is shrunk in excess it leads to things like poor balance, sway, excessive hip turn / hip slide with too much weight transferred on the right side, your shoulder drops and inconsistency is the result. It just causes too much un-necessary movement.

How do I know these things? Because this is something that can creep into my swing. It's very easy to do if you lack flexibility. I want my lead knee to bend toward the ball, then bow out and straighten.

I tend to follow the adage that the golf ball doesn't move, so why should I. I favor a more centered pivot which makes it easier to get on your left side. There's a very famous golfer who is now following this model.

You have to find what works for you and not letting the lead knee collapse toward the rear leg works for me. And also for the majority of Tour players.

Happy Holidays!!!
 

66er

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Just a stupid question I need a little clarification on, when you put tangential force on the club at the top and the way this tenses the left arm by doing so, that isnt tugging right?
 
66,

The tug is more about the left shoulder starting to move targetward or rotate back to the left. Having some "slack" in the left arm at the top helps me apply some of the out toss you're referring to without feeling like I need to start the left shoulder moving too soon.
 
Hi Dariusz J.,

Having read many of your postings in several discussion boards, I have learnt to pay close attention when you are making a point. In my session at the range working on my driver yesterday, I discovered that when I consciously make my left knee (I am right handed) kick in in the back swing, it supplied additional power to the lead side of my lower body. That made the shift more automatic, and the lead side leading by default. Coming back and re-reading this thread, I found your post above which already described what I felt.

In addition, I may be mistaken, but it seemed to reduce the stress on my left knee in the transition. Without this move, when I try too hard to fire my lower left side, my left knee sometimes hurt after a while.

So, many thanks for sharing your knowledge. You are a beacon.
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Happy Holidays.
Vortex,

Joe Norwood's Golf–O–Metrics, always an interesting read.

“Stand in front of a mirror, or watch your reflection in a window, or better yet, use Joe's camera. Take the stance in the address position, go to Position One and hold it, note where the the clubhead is, drop the left knee inward, and watch the clubhead jump another three feet. Three feet of additional arc out of a one-inch move wit the left knee with no added effort.”

(“Position One is the back swing that ends when the right forearm reaches a horizontal position.”)
 

Dariusz J.

New member
Joe Norwood's Golf–O–Metrics, always an interesting read.

“Stand in front of a mirror, or watch your reflection in a window, or better yet, use Joe's camera. Take the stance in the address position, go to Position One and hold it, note where the the clubhead is, drop the left knee inward, and watch the clubhead jump another three feet. Three feet of additional arc out of a one-inch move wit the left knee with no added effort.”

(“Position One is the back swing that ends when the right forearm reaches a horizontal position.”)

It must be a great book to read and learn with. Thanks for bringing that, Mandrin. Is the book still available somewhere ?

Merry Christmas.
 

dbl

New
Joe Norwood's grandson Dan is selling the book and keeping the swing alive.

here's an except...
From Joe Norwood's Golf-O-Metrics (1978)p 118 "Golfers, are you ready for this? At the top of the golf swing the very first move of the downswing is backward - yes, backward and away from the ball. This is a mind boggling statement, since the eye and the mind are focused on the ball out in front. The ball is a magnet. The anxiety level to hit is always high. The need for discipline is great at this point of the swing. The desire is to hit the ball, and yet the first requisite is to make a backward move.
 

Dariusz J.

New member
Joe Norwood's grandson Dan is selling the book and keeping the swing alive.

PM me with the link, please.

here's an except...
From Joe Norwood's Golf-O-Metrics (1978)p 118 "Golfers, are you ready for this? At the top of the golf swing the very first move of the downswing is backward - yes, backward and away from the ball. This is a mind boggling statement, since the eye and the mind are focused on the ball out in front. The ball is a magnet. The anxiety level to hit is always high. The need for discipline is great at this point of the swing. The desire is to hit the ball, and yet the first requisite is to make a backward move.

Of course he was right. It is the essence of the sequentiality of the motion performed from the ground up.

Cheers
 
Vortex,

Joe Norwood's Golf–O–Metrics, always an interesting read.

“Stand in front of a mirror, or watch your reflection in a window, or better yet, use Joe's camera. Take the stance in the address position, go to Position One and hold it, note where the the clubhead is, drop the left knee inward, and watch the clubhead jump another three feet. Three feet of additional arc out of a one-inch move wit the left knee with no added effort.”

(“Position One is the back swing that ends when the right forearm reaches a horizontal position.”)

Ah, Mandrin, another key bright light at the leading edge convergence of science and golf, thank you for your valuable insight and happy holidays. A quick appreciation btw without threadjacking, I enjoy your writings on the parametric acceleration very much, although regrettably I can't access any of your diagrams hosted in angelfire, the site somehow blocked from my country.

Three feet of clubhead with one inch of lower body movement is huge. If I understand this correctly, it works both ways going up and down. Which means, I can power the left knee the other way and move the clubhead by the same amount going downwards, ie. increasing the leverage of the pivot.

Before I got this, I used to wonder why good players' swing looks so effortless and steady, with a poised and balanced finish, yet generates so much power with a tiny backswing while I had to overswing, and then rock, roll and sway all my lower extremities just to get the club up to speed, almost falling over nevermind poise, and even then, the clubhead speed achieved was lower.

Now I try to find the leverage everywhere I can on the left side, from ankle, knees, hips, etc all the way to the left wrist, a chain if you will, having some slack at the top of the swing that Brian described. From the top, letting the club fall which takes up the slack. I think the falling club also allows me to produce parametric acceleration if I understand the concept correctly. With the left chain taut, instincts take over and drive the taut chain through impact. Once the slack is taken up, driving the left side through is almost a non-conscious move. It might sound weird, but I almost 'close' my mind's eye, as if going into semi-trance, and feel/trust the torque/tension of the chain.

With a smaller backswing, I generate more power via leverage and maybe even a touch of parametric acceleration. And I can finish nicely balanced.

Natural flow of kinetic energy - Darius J. Or wall of torque - Brian M. I think I am beginning to understand.
 

Dariusz J.

New member
Thank you so much, Dbl. I have never read such an interesting material for ages. The guy was brilliant. It appears I was not the first who said Hogan merged strong LH with weakish RH while forming grip.
WHY THE HELL THIS IS NOT POPULAR TODAY AND INSTEAD WE HAVE SUCH RUBBISH IN THE GOLF INSTRUCTION ?
Beats me.
I googled the name and read that even Hogan went to Norwood !!!

http://www.dan-norwood.com/Joe_Norwood_The_Man_and_His_Swing.pdf

Merry Christmas, friend !

P.S. I wanted to say this in response to your PMs but your box is full !
 
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Just did a quick search and found this guy giving a good demonstration of what IMO is a lead knee collapse at ~ 1:35 mark in the video.

Golf Instruction - Use of legs in the Golf Swing - YouTube

The video posted earlier of Hogan with the clock-face has his lead knee going towards (actually right at) 3:00 which is right at the ball and far from a lead knee collapse.

Ben Hogan's Swing, like clockwork - YouTube

And a 1 inch "inward" move of the lead knee is far from a lead knee collapse. In the words of someone everyone here is familiar with. GEEZ.
 
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Dariusz J.

New member
Just did a quick search and found this guy giving a good demonstration of what IMO is a lead knee collapse at the ~ 1:35 mark.

Golf Instruction - Use of legs in the Golf Swing - YouTube

The video posted earlier of Hogan with the clock-face has his lead knee going towards (actually right at) 3:00 which is right at the ball and far from a lead knee collapse.

Ben Hogan's Swing, like clockwork - YouTube

And a 1 inch "inward" move of the lead knee is far form a lead knee collapse. In the words of someone everyone here is familiar with. GEEZ.

Instead wasting time looking at some internet "experts" or today's tour pro hackers you should look at the best ballstrikers in the history of golf and learn from them. Today's instruction sucks in general. Todays pros suck in general. Believe in this instead it is too late.
If you are here to learn from science, you should already have noticed what to follow. The next generation of pros will follow science, I believe - and it will appear that SUDDENLY and UNEXPECTEDLY (of course not for me but for you) swing motion patterns again will be similar to Hogan, young Nicklaus, Snead, DeVicenzo, etc. Especially, if the old and only true spirit of the game resurects.

Cheers
 

footwedge

New member
Just did a quick search and found this guy giving a good demonstration of what IMO is a lead knee collapse at ~ 1:35 mark in the video.

Golf Instruction - Use of legs in the Golf Swing - YouTube

The video posted earlier of Hogan with the clock-face has his lead knee going towards (actually right at) 3:00 which is right at the ball and far from a lead knee collapse.



Ben Hogan's Swing, like clockwork - YouTube

And a 1 inch "inward" move of the lead knee is far from a lead knee collapse. In the words of someone everyone here is familiar with. GEEZ.



I didn't put it there to show a lead knee collapse. Also if you think Hogan's knee is going directly out to the ball without coming towards his right knee, you got 2d eyes....GEEEZZZ.
 

dbl

New
You're welcome, Darius, and thanks to let me know about the Inbox, should be fixed now. Merry Christmas!
 
Instead wasting time looking at some internet "experts" or today's tour pro hackers you should look at the best ballstrikers in the history of golf and learn from them. Today's instruction sucks in general. Todays pros suck in general. Believe in this instead it is too late.
If you are here to learn from science, you should already have noticed what to follow. The next generation of pros will follow science, I believe - and it will appear that SUDDENLY and UNEXPECTEDLY (of course not for me but for you) swing motion patterns again will be similar to Hogan, young Nicklaus, Snead, DeVicenzo, etc. Especially, if the old and only true spirit of the game resurects.

Cheers

I don't know how you can be taken serious saying things like "todays tour pro hackers" and "todays pros suck in general". You lose all credibility saying over the top ridiculous things like that. There's no one set of fundamentals that work for everyone (past or present). Everyone needs to find "their" way of doing it. You're stuck in the past and it's like saying they don't make movies like they use to.

You can appreciate swings (and movies) of the past while still appreciating the swings of today. :)
 
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