When does the flat left wrist stop being flat? (with Manzella Video Answer & BLOG)
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
This thread gives me the hives.
I teach MOST golfers to keep their left worst flat to the finish. These majority of these golfers are NOT tournament players.
Average golfers are throw, scoop, flipping the heck out of it, and they are reverse-rotating the left arm wedge, the shaft about itself, and the club comes out of their hands.
A full roll, limited wedge rotation, flat left wrist pattern attempt works best for these players.
A younger golfer, like Lindsay Gahm, with an anti-flip teacher like me, might develop a swing like hers where the left wrist stays flat without restricting the full release of the power generating angles.
But if you want to help a bunch of different kinds of swinging young juniors, college golfers, mini-tourists, and pro tour players, you'd better leave a LOT of bending left wrist post impacter the HELL alone.
That should be that.
But it won't be.
Steady....steady! Wild bill Hicock...funny! I am not suggesting a bent left wrist at impact, just that there is no need to keep it flat for any length of time afterwards. The eternal flat left wrist made a lot of sense to me when I bought into hinge actions. Even the die hards admit that the right wrist is flattened by the time you pass follow through into finish. It seems reasonable to me that the flattening starts occuring incrementaly from release (maybe sooner!) Uncock...roll...hinge...swivel...no thanks. Someone mentioned that allowing the right right wrist to straighten revived their short game. I have experienced the same phenomenon with the longer sticks. Ball does NOT give a flip, right? I am just about out of lemon flavored kool-aide!
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
Steady....steady! Wild bill Hicock...funny! I am not suggesting a bent left wrist at impact, just that there is no need to keep it flat for any length of time afterwards. The eternal flat left wrist made a lot of sense to me when I bought into hinge actions. Even the die hards admit that the right wrist is flattened by the time you pass follow through into finish. It seems reasonable to me that the flattening starts occuring incrementaly from release (maybe sooner!) Uncock...roll...hinge...swivel...no thanks. Someone mentioned that allowing the right right wrist to straighten revived their short game. I have experienced the same phenomenon with the longer sticks. Ball does NOT give a flip, right? I am just about out of lemon flavored kool-aide!
Good post.
Brian a little bend in the left wrist is probably not a problem if you play with a strong grip like many do today.The problem if when the left wrist breaks down severely into a huge flip just past impact.I have never seen a great player release the way Mehlhorn is doing it,if it is indeed Mehlhorn which I doubt.I see plenty of hackers release like that though.
Could the difference be the pivot? Most struggling golfer just take an almighty swipe with the arms and their pivots are largely faux i.e. looks like a pivot. Kinda like what Nicklaus said back in the day, if you get to your left side you cannot hit too soon with the mittens. I really good player warned me about the flat left wrist stuff. What the hell did he know, he was only a winning tour player back in the day! He put it me this way: "Yeah the left wrist is flat but the destination is the follow through, not impact." I countered "Listen here "Mr. Knows how to do it, but does not know what "it" is" what you want to do it uncock, roll and then swivel." "Mmmm that makes for a noisy club face don't you think?" I seriously left that encounter thinking that poor sod does now know what the hell he is talking about. I cringe at the memory.
Want to see a flattening right wrist check out Henry Cotton. I forget the golf writer that said something to the effect that I have seen them all, no one hit it better than Sir Henry! I will leave it to another to drag something out of the Youtube barrel.
He put it me this way: "Yeah the left wrist is flat but the destination is the follow through, not impact." I countered "Listen here "Mr. Knows how to do it, but does not know what "it" is" what you want to do it uncock, roll and then swivel." "Mmmm that makes for a noisy club face don't you think?" I seriously left that encounter thinking that poor sod does now know what the hell he is talking about. I cringe at the memory. Want to see a flattening right wrist check out Henry Cotton. I forget the golf writer that said something to the effect that I have seen them all, no one hit it better than Sir Henry! I will leave it to another to drag something out of the Youtube barrel.
Steady....steady! Wild bill Hicock...funny! I am not suggesting a bent left wrist at impact, just that there is no need to keep it flat for any length of time afterwards. The eternal flat left wrist made a lot of sense to me when I bought into hinge actions. Even the die hards admit that the right wrist is flattened by the time you pass follow through into finish. It seems reasonable to me that the flattening starts occuring incrementaly from release (maybe sooner!) Uncock...roll...hinge...swivel...no thanks. Someone mentioned that allowing the right right wrist to straighten revived their short game. I have experienced the same phenomenon with the longer sticks. Ball does NOT give a flip, right? I am just about out of lemon flavored kool-aide!
I have never said that the left wrist needs to be held flat till the end of the swing.I have shown plenty of examples in ultra slow mo of great players with a flat left wrist held until at least both arms straight in the follow through.Bend it all you like after that.
You also seem to think that flattening the right wrist bends the left which you obviously learnt from TGM.If you have followed what i have posted in this thread,it is entirely possible to flatten or even arch the right wrist while keeping the left flat.I have posted many videos showing this is possible.I have NEVER said you should not flatten the right wrist just past impact.Trying to hold a bent right wrist well past impact is TGM junk.
You can understand my frustration when someone posts a 1920s video of Mehlhorn(most likely an imposter) flipping like crazy just after impact and then declare that good technique.
Dariusz J.
New member
I did not assume, I knew it. Imagine that there are valid sources in the net:
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1928/ag319n.pdf
You should rather frustrate about lack of knowledge about old valid good techniques.
Cheers
Could the difference be the pivot? Most struggling golfer just take an almighty swipe with the arms and their pivots are largely faux i.e. looks like a pivot. Kinda like what Nicklaus said back in the day, if you get to your left side you cannot hit too soon with the mittens. I really good player warned me about the flat left wrist stuff. What the hell did he know, he was only a winning tour player back in the day!
Want to see a flattening right wrist check out Henry Cotton. I forget the golf writer that said something to the effect that I have seen them all, no one hit it better than Sir Henry! I will leave it to another to drag something out of the Youtube barrel.
I have read about Cotton and his slap hinge release.Can you post any videos of him releasing how "Mehlhorn" is releasing?
I have seen Cottons swing and yes he does flatten his right wrist but that doesn't mean he flips his left.
Anyone with half an eye can see the difference in the swing of the one you posted and the one I posted.Where is the full extended release and the dipping head in your video?
I will look for some of Cotton's stuff. My position (I am far more receptive to correction now than ever before!) is that once you get to release point with the power angles in tow you can let it go! Certainly not from the top.
I assumed that the photo sequence was in fact Melhorn. If it cannot be verified then pretend I did not post it!
I will look for some of Cotton's stuff. My position (I am far more receptive to correction now than ever before!) is that once you get to release point with the power angles in tow you can let it go! Certainly not from the top.
I assumed that the photo sequence was in fact Melhorn. If it cannot be verified then pretend I did not post it!
It can be done like that.I have also never said you can't play decent golf timing the flip.You just don't see much of that at the very highest level of the game.
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Dariusz J.
New member
Excuse me, but this discussion goes nowhere. I have just presented a link to the source stating it is Mehlhorn. If it is not enough for you, so be it. I have better things to do than argue with you.
Cheers
Notorious B.E.N.
New
Check out the second comment on this thread by Brian. I happened to stumble upon it.
"I have NEVER
EVER
EVER
EVER
said the left wrist HAS TO be flat all the way to the finish.
Not once.
As a matter of fact, IMO, it HAS TO bend in a PURE SWING.
I just don't think many people CAN PURE SWING or should."
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/6610-austin-talk.html
"I have NEVER
EVER
EVER
EVER
said the left wrist HAS TO be flat all the way to the finish.
Not once.
As a matter of fact, IMO, it HAS TO bend in a PURE SWING.
I just don't think many people CAN PURE SWING or should."
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/6610-austin-talk.html
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