Hogan's inspiring Clip

[tourdeep]

"better golfer b4"...

I've read most of the Hogan biographies, and don't remember that quote. Cary Middlecoff, in his excellent book "The Golf Swing", wrote that in the late '40's, pre-accident, "Power Golf" era, Hogan was one-dimensional: he only hit a fade, except with the driver, which he sometimes sliced. After the accident, Middlecolf wrote that the "Hogan aura" of ballstriking began, and that Hogan relied less on the fade, and more on the shot called for: straight, draw, or fade. I have read a quote by Hogan that the second nine of the third round of the 1967 Masters was the best golf he ever played; that he did not think he came close to missing a shot. To me, that calls into question the "'Power Golf' swing was better" sentiment. If you can source where Hogan said that his pre-accident swing was better, I'd like to see it. I can believe that he might of said that he "played" better pre-accident, because he had a better short-game, or that he had more power. But, better ballstriker, I'm skeptical.

Hi Jeffy

In the book, Ben Hogan, The Man Behind The Mystique, pg 58., the author, Martin Davis quotes Hogan telling more than several friends that "I was a better golfer before the accident than I ever was afterward".

Better golfer means better everything, imo...

Ben was a blue collar golfer wth an attitude, an attitude of severe competitveness that would probably make Tiger a pussycat. The guy was in phenomenal shape and could do a few other things fairly well. Having said that, in my opinion, he prided himself on his physique and to have such a debilitating accident that required him to make adjustments to his swing was a huge swallow of pride. I think he said he was a better golfer primarily because of how he felt physically pre accident.

When Ben finally "got it", he won a bunch of tournaments in the 1940's, 52, with two years of no golf (when Byron did his thing) with military obligation and the last year shortened by the accident. I don't know what the record of wins with the greats in a 10 year span, let alone a seven year span if we were to remove 3 years of unfulfilled golf, but this certainly is up there. Tiger is 60+...

Byron's phenomenal record probably irritated the heck out of Ben cuz he knew it was done against a diluted field, and more so cuz he was not there. No doubt, if Ben were competing during that awesome Byron run of consecutive wins, and maybe number of wins in a year, that record would not belong to Byron. Ben would not have allowed it! The consecutive win record would be held by Tiger. But, it is history, and the record stands. Byron had an amazing year regardless of the field.

The accident may have been a blessing. Ben refocused, grinded even harder, and concentrated on major tournaments. This was probably a result of his physical condition not allowng him to compete on a full schedule. It was just too much.

And we know what he did with that fundamental swing post accident...

Tiger had 55 wins in a ten year span if my math is correct.

 

[birdie_man]

Nope not a new one. Check out Jody Vasquez's book Afternoons with Mr. Hogan. That is what Jody says Hogan told him was the secret, running his right knee at the ball. I'm not saying I think that was it, but it has been said before in that book.
Self Mastery, those are a couple of useless posts.

Hey.....it all counts to some degree..............but that is a second-hand comment.....and to be perfectly honest.....there seems to be a lot of money in selling Hogan stuff these days. (so I am always a little skeptical)

I say that it counts to a very small degree. (IMO) And better yet....I think it is useful to an even smaller degree.

BECAUSE.........even IF it was something that Hogan did....(which, again- I have a hard time with).............to me it is nothing more than a personal feel. I could go try it I guess......but I really don't think I could relate to it at all. I would assume the same thing for the vast majority of people to be honest.

 

[self-mastery]

People are so illogical when it comes to Ben Hogan.

 

[sweetser]

Indeed, its not new at all, certainly not to those who have read on Hogan. I won't bother responding to the jibe about his major at 34. He watched his father blow his brains out at 9 and was the family bread winner at 12yrs old. I choose not to belittle his acheivements from a position of knowledge, sitting back and taking potshots at someone like Hogan is easy, using ill-informed sound bites anyway.

I have worn out Five Lessons, read both the Sampson and Dodson bios multiple times. This is grade school in terms of what some folks in these parts know about Hogan. So, you know, have fun.

 

[self-mastery]

I choose not to belittle his acheivements from a position of knowledge, sitting back and taking potshots at someone like Hogan is easy, using ill-informed sound bites anyway.

Suggesting that a man earned his place as ONE (Woods #1) of the best players of all time through hard work, and not through innate talent is belittling? You would think that would give the average golfer inspiration, but NO Hogan had a SECRET and if we figure out what old Ben knew we would hit it just like him

MEH forum people...

 

[mrodock]

Ben hit it straight, cute, so does Morgan Pressel

One of the most ignorant posts on the entire site.

 

[jeffy]

In the book, Ben Hogan, The Man Behind The Mystique, pg 58., the author, Martin Davis quotes Hogan telling more than several friends that "I was a better golfer before the accident than I ever was afterward".

Better golfer means better everything, imo...

I'd forgotten that quote; it was in the very good Dan Jenkin's chapter.

 

[self-mastery]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9vke_C8AWI

 

[jeffy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9vke_C8AWI

So? This is what he set out in the 1955 Life magazine article, except the article had a lot more detail...

 

[David Alford]

Regarding talent, my opinion is a certain small percentage of people gravitate towards mastering difficult things and will seek mastery at extremely high levels of effort. That level of single minded concentration, effort and sacrifice is a talent in itself and it's different than the type of talent that makes difficult things easy at the first go.

Ideally, you have both and you start young (e.g., Tiger). If you're lack these advantages, there is only ONE hope. Dead accurate applied knowledge of the technique(s) required to do the task. Not theory or broad knowledge, but specific knowledge accurately applied.

Our advantage, is we have the example of Ben Hogan. It sounds funny to say this, but Ben Hogan didn't have that advantage. He had to invent himself, as it were. When you view that clip and watch the portion where the elderly Mr. Hogan speaks about his secret, you can glimpse the steely determination. This is actually a force above and beyond any golfing technique you'll read about.

 

[David Alford]

For clarification I am referencing the clip self-mastery provided: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9vke_C8AWI

See also 1:30 of the video from the first post, page 1 of this thread.

 

[mb6606]

Hogan maintains those flying wedges deeper into the swing than anyone.
The pre-accident iron swings are very impressive. I believe he won 9 majors out of 29 he entered over an 8 year period.No -telling how many majors he would have won if he had not been involved in the car wreck.

 

[jimmyt]

I agree with self-mastery.....I don't understand why saying he worked hard or had great determination is belittling him. He of course had talent but someone who can work his game to that level is inspiring to me.....He is a blue collar golfer and should be embraced by all for that. I would consider it a compliment if someone ever told me you work as hard as Hogan on your game........

 

[birdie_man]

Regarding talent, my opinion is a certain small percentage of people gravitate towards mastering difficult things and will seek mastery at extremely high levels of effort. That level of single minded concentration, effort and sacrifice is a talent in itself and it's different than the type of talent that makes difficult things easy at the first go.

Ideally, you have both and you start young (e.g., Tiger). If you're lack these advantages, there is only ONE hope. Dead accurate applied knowledge of the technique(s) required to do the task. Not theory or broad knowledge, but specific knowledge accurately applied.

Our advantage, is we have the example of Ben Hogan. It sounds funny to say this, but Ben Hogan didn't have that advantage. He had to invent himself, as it were. When you view that clip and watch the portion where the elderly Mr. Hogan speaks about his secret, you can glimpse the steely determination. This is actually a force above and beyond any golfing technique you'll read about.

DEEP.

I like it.

Very well put.

 

[birdie_man]

I agree with self-mastery.....I don't understand why saying he worked hard or had great and determination is belittling him.

For sure it is not.

I still think his talent might be underestimated by some people though.

But before David Alford gives me a verbal kick in the pants I will say I don't see him as any kind of God either. (in the sense of being capable of things beyond my reach)

(though I still don't know about the Trigger Delay )

(but that is OK )

 

[self-mastery]

Hogan, King of the unnatural's.

I agree with almost everything Alford stated. I think that most people can develop Hogan's work ethic and singular focus.


SM- outworking smarter more talented people since 1992.

 

[birdie_man]

Hogan, King of the unnatural's.

HA. (with red thumbs down!!)

O c'mon s-m.......he couldn't have been that untalented.

Or maybe I should refer to it as "ability."

Cause there is natural aptitude.....and then there is potential. 2 different things.

It did take him a while........but once he got the mechanics sorted out he really got rolling.

Those Power Golf clips on YouTube kind of surprised me cause I thought they looked pretty dang dynamic. Super long swing, crazy lag, very hard (or even a little reckless) pivot. (never seen those clips before)

Maybe you need to get your eyes checked though s-m.

...

 

[DOCW3]

Hogan Influence

David~

Considering the Hogan influence and some opinions that he did not do what he said he did was Five Lessons a benefit for the average player?

Regarding talent, my opinion is a certain small percentage of people gravitate towards mastering difficult things and will seek mastery at extremely high levels of effort. That level of single minded concentration, effort and sacrifice is a talent in itself and it's different than the type of talent that makes difficult things easy at the first go.

Ideally, you have both and you start young (e.g., Tiger). If you're lack these advantages, there is only ONE hope. Dead accurate applied knowledge of the technique(s) required to do the task. Not theory or broad knowledge, but specific knowledge accurately applied.

Our advantage, is we have the example of Ben Hogan. It sounds funny to say this, but Ben Hogan didn't have that advantage. He had to invent himself, as it were. When you view that clip and watch the portion where the elderly Mr. Hogan speaks about his secret, you can glimpse the steely determination. This is actually a force above and beyond any golfing technique you'll read about.

 

[jeffy]

I agree with self-mastery.....I don't understand why saying he worked hard or had great and determination is belittling him. .

If that is what he said, people probably wouldn't have a problem. However, he said that Hogan had "the least amount of talent to play the game." While I can see why some may find that an insult to Hogan, I think it's just plain stupidity.

 

[jimmyt]

If that is what he said, people probably wouldn't have a problem. However, he said that Hogan had "the least amount of talent to play the game." While I can see why some may find that an insult to Hogan, I think it's just plain stupidity.

Ok, forget the glowing endorsement that I once gave to SELFS statements. But I will stand by my comment which was the talent that he had was obviuosly developed so that he could perform at a very high level if not at the highest level of his game at that time. Without the talent you could work on your swing 10 hours a day and although you will improve, I probably won't see your name on the top 125. Last comment I'll make is whatever gene pool he came from, the reason for the original post of the youtube video was to be offered as inspiration, and for me it did just that all this other stuff were talking about is just opinions.

Thanks for the video again....