"12 Nights at the Academy" begins tonight

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softconsult

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Reality check.

Think about the multi-hundreds of posts on this forum where we are all
trying to digest the D-Plane, and this is after most of us have watched Brian's D-Plane video
4 or 5 times. Think about an hour long documentary news show versus
the evening news. The golf channel is golf instruction in sound bites, so to speak. If
we have this much difficulty understanding it, just imagine the futility of trying to explain
in on the golf channel. The folks watching are receiving one way communication and have no
way of asking questions like we do.
 
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softconsult

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I agree, but just for discussions sake, how do you do it correctly?

Once you blow up the traditional explanation, you are then
obligated to explain the new reality. How do you do that in
a few scarce minutes? Brian's D-Plane video does a wonderful
job of explaining it, but is 40 minutes in length. Academy Live
is 30 minutes, minus commercials etc. I would guess Hall had
around 10 minutes actual air time.

I can see why they didn't want to go there on this try out segment.
If he wins, it would seem logical that the show would get into
Trackman and D-Plane over multiple segments. Logical to me, perhaps
illogical to the producers watching viewership, doing focus groups, cowtowing
to the large advertisers.

We shall see.
 
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savydan

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How do you do it correctly?

First, if you know what you're talking about, you don't say crap you know is wrong.

Are they ready for a one-hour show on D-plane?

Probably not.

I don't discount there's a resistance to blowing a lot of things up on one show.

And, like you said, it would go over most of the heads of the rank and file viewership with a soup to nuts one-hour presentation.

It will likely seep it's way into TGC just like it will seep into the magazines, online, and, heck, even the stubborn instructors themselves.
 
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softconsult

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And remember, Hall is in audition mode. Not smart to make any waves,
until you seal the deal.

I think you are exactly right about the slow dispersment of the info.

It takes a long time to turn an aircraft carrier.
 
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softconsult

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Yes, smart money is the decision is already made. A sad thought
is that what if the thinking is that it can't be Hall because he would
overshadow Breed?
 
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dbl

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Yes, smart money is the decision is already made.
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Maybe. I think also maybe they looked through their stable and found Hall and Palacio, and a boy versus girl argument ensued. Let the people decide, someone said - we need the public's eyeballs. And then for fun throw in a few others. So pick an insider like Player, have a contest, and decide on the "Q" factor between the two front runners once some real world numbers can be obtained.
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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mb6606 said:
So the question becomes - does the player align left of target for an iron and use his normal swing?

Or does the player align train tracks style with the target and take the club outside the target line and what would be considered traditional layed off at the top and swing left thus tilting his HSP left?
Click to expand...

If you're asking me, or asking about swing style, I'd say it'll differ between individuals. Normally, I would prefer my students to align more left the shorter the club gets, unless they have already built enough "left" into their downswing with their shorter clubs.

It might be a copout to say "different for everybody," but I think it applies here.
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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mjstrong said:
If you're asking me, or asking about swing style, I'd say it'll differ between individuals. Normally, I would prefer my students to align more left the shorter the club gets, unless they have already built enough "left" into their downswing with their shorter clubs.

It might be a copout to say "different for everybody," but I think it applies here.
Click to expand...

As you move from the #3 wood down to the SW, gradually doubling your negative Attack Angle along the way, the resultant Clubhead Path will be the same when the HSP is constant. So, the Plane Line really doesn't have to change, except with the driver, if you're hitting "up".

To give Martin Hall a very fair "out".......he did say that for a "straight" shot, the swing should trace the Target Line (0* HSP) and the clubface should be square to that plane. And this is true, in a GENERAL sense, and more specifically, when the Attack Angle is 0* (Low Point). One shouldn't assume a value for Attack Angle when one was not given. There will be a time to introduce when, why, and how the Plane Line should be shifted.
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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Todd Dugan said:
As you move from the #3 wood down to the SW, gradually doubling your negative Attack Angle along the way, the resultant Clubhead Path will be the same when the HSP is constant. So, the Plane Line really doesn't have to change, except with the driver, if you're hitting "up".
Click to expand...

Are you sure? How so? Maybe roughly, but not exactly?

If I'm hitting more down with my wedges than with my 3 hybrid, my plane line would need to be more left with my wedges than my 3 hybrid. Are you saying that the potential differences in VSP accounts for this change? I don't think that would be correct either...

Running the numbers, If I want to achieve a 0.0 path:

Sand Wedge: VSP=64.0, AoA=-6 => HSP -2.93 degrees needed to achieve this.
3 Hybrid: VSP=59.0, AoA=-3 => HSP -1.8 degrees needed to achieve this.

If anybody else wants to double check my numbers, please do. I've just pumped them into my own spreadsheet.

This post was mostly me thinking out loud, sorry if it's jumbled a little.
 
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Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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mjstrong said:
Are you sure? How so? Maybe roughly, but not exactly?

If I'm hitting more down with my wedges than with my 3 hybrid, my plane line would need to be more left with my wedges than my 3 hybrid. Are you saying that the potential differences in VSP accounts for this change? I don't think that would be correct either...

Running the numbers, If I want to achieve a 0.0 path:

Sand Wedge: VSP=64.0, AoA=-6 => HSP -2.93 degrees needed to achieve this.
3 Hybrid: VSP=59.0, AoA=-3 => HSP -1.8 degrees needed to achieve this.

If anybody else wants to double check my numbers, please do. I've just pumped them into my own spreadsheet.

This post was mostly me thinking out loud, sorry if it's jumbled a little.
Click to expand...

Yes, the VSP must be factored. Slightly less than doubling the negative AA will keep the Path constant. But, the point is that you CAN keep the same HSP AND Clubhead Path by gradually decreasing the AA as the clubs get shorter :).
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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Dan44GT said:
Great Point Todd.

So, how do we feel about Mr. Ballard's ideals? He certainly has plenty of confidence.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Dan. I'm disappointed that I had to miss tonight's show. I did recently track down Ballard's book from the 80's.
I felt that there were many points in it that science could take issue with.
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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Todd Dugan said:
Yes, the VSP must be factored. Slightly less than doubling the negative AA will keep the Path constant. But, the point is that you CAN keep the same HSP AND Clubhead Path by gradually decreasing the AA as the clubs get shorter :).
Click to expand...

Todd, Do you think it's easier to consciously alter your (or your students') AoA to "fit the formula" or to aim their HSP more/less left to fit the formula?
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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islandgolf629 said:
Well they have not erased everything. Here is the transcript of the show between Kessler and Palmer: Golf Talk Live Transcript - Arnold Palmer - January 8, 2001 - Golf Talk Live Transcripts - Golf News & Articles | Golf Channel

It's a bit long, but worth it to get an idea of what actually happened.
Click to expand...

Arnold Palmer said:
"THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS, AND I'M GOING TO GET INTO THIS AND IF YOU WANT TO STOP ME, YOU STOP ME..."

"THEY'VE, SOME OF MY GOOD FRIENDS HAVE, HAVE CRUSHED ME WITH SOME OF THEIR LETTERS AND SOME OF THEIR COMMENTS, AND THERE HAVE BEEN THINGS LIKE CHEATING USED IN THEIR COMMENTS ABOUT NON-CONFORMING GOLF CLUBS AND, AND THE LAST THING IN THE WORLD THAT I WOULD EVER TOLERATE IS CHEATING. I THINK THAT THE WORD ITSELF, IF, IF YOU SAID IT TO ME, SETTING HERE, I'D PROBABLY PUNCH YOU RIGHT IN THE NOSE, RIGHT NOW, AND I MEAN THAT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT I'VE EVER CHEATED PLAYING GOLF AND I HATE THE THOUGHTS OF ANYBODY EVEN USING THE TERM UNLESS THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, AND IF THEY'RE ACCUSING SOMEONE THEN THEY BETTER HAVE THE RIGHT LANGUAGE TO COVER UP WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, SO LET'S DROP THAT. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE MADE MY POINT ON AND I'M NOT GOING TO SAY ANOTHER WORD ABOUT IT. IF ANYBODY WANTS TO ACCUSE ME, THEN THEY BETTER COME TO ME PERSONALLY AND I HAVEN'T BEEN IN A GOOD FIGHT IN A LONG TIME AND I'M READY."
Click to expand...

...

Holy! Good job Arnold!!

What a stupid argument anyway. Perhaps it's too bad he got drawn into it. Dunno what the hell Kessler was thinking.
 
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