"12 Nights at the Academy" begins tonight

[dbl]

Watched the Ballard segment, and I would say not much science was presented. They do make claims about how the body best works and what is stressing parts of it, but I can't answer about the correctness of that.

In summary, the Ballard swing has the following points:

Feet Setup: Right foot square to line or in, left foot canted out
Stance: wide and tall. Inside of feet = shoulder width. No bend over in back (or very little)
Elbows Setup: turn elbows in, hold againt ribs.
(note elbows being in prevents over rotation of LAFW)

Backswing: Coil, no sway
also: elbows bend up.

Downswing: reverse the above


Claim: in a swing with axis tilt, it leads to hitting up and hand release hooks, or block saves.

What I saw of Rocco's swing: They make the swing out to be super simple, but the important things to me are left out, and in slow mo you can see the swing is not so simple. At the top, Rocco's club is toe down. In the downswing no major actions happen until his hands are about a foot from impact position, where he rotates the left like crazy and quickly releases all right wrist bend so that 1 foot from impact his right hand is totally flat.

For the average golfer, without being told what to do with those hands, it's right city.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Todd, Do you think it's easier to consciously alter your (or your students') AoA to "fit the formula" or to aim their HSP more/less left to fit the formula?

MJ, An optimum Attack Angle should become more descending as the clubfaces become "pitched back" more. This is needed really just to get the ball "up" on the center of the clubface. The fact that this allows you to keep your HSP and Path the same, is just a nice "bonus". Moving the ball progressively "back" in the stance achieves this. Have a look at the PGA Tour averages for AA from TrackMan. -2.9* with the #3 wood, progressing to -5* with the PW .

Another thing that I've discovered, is that of the great players who SAID that their ball position was the same for every shot.....it really wasn't, AT IMPACT. Nicklaus DID play every shot opposite his left heel at address. But the position of his sternum in relation to the ball AT IMPACT changed progressively through the bag.

 

[Bigwill]

I kinda hope that this means Academy Live is coming back. I really enjoyed watching that show. I loved hearing the different ideas, as well as what different pros were working on, without the beef we frequently see online that often clouds the issues at hand.

 

[ffejeff224]

I want to know what the instructors out there thought of the Rocco section last night. I am not one to evaluate or critique what was said, but it seemed to me that they proscribe to a certain method. As well all know around here, methods are usually not the most effective way to get ALL golfers to improve and most of the time they will only help a specific type of person. I just wanted to hear anybody's thoughts on this.

 

[mjstrong]

MJ, An optimum Attack Angle should become more descending as the clubfaces become "pitched back" more. This is needed really just to get the ball "up" on the center of the clubface. The fact that this allows you to keep your HSP and Path the same, is just a nice "bonus". Moving the ball progressively "back" in the stance achieves this. Have a look at the PGA Tour averages for AA from TrackMan. -2.9* with the #3 wood, progressing to -5* with the PW .

But, it's not quite that clean, is it? Was my math wrong, or does the HSP still need some adjustment? My VSP assumptions were match up based on the clubs' lie angles, which Brian has theorized to be optimal (VSP = lie angle).

Pitching Wedge: VSP=64.0, AoA=-5 => HSP -2.44 degrees needed to achieve this.
3 Wood: VSP=57.0, AoA=-3 => HSP -1.88 degrees needed to achieve this.

I guess, we're only talking about .56 of a degree, so we'd might as well consider that negligible. Looks like you're right. Interesting. I was always under the assumption that the HSP had to shift more as we hit down on the ball more, and did not think that the variable VSP would nearly offset that. Cool.

Another thing that I've discovered, is that of the great players who SAID that their ball position was the same for every shot.....it really wasn't, AT IMPACT. Nicklaus DID play every shot opposite his left heel at address. But the position of his sternum in relation to the ball AT IMPACT changed progressively through the bag.

Absolutely. 100% agree.

 

[ms1170]

I think that Rocco showed us why Tour players aren't allowed to wear shorts.