A controversial subject

[armourall]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

I am not suggesting a bent left wrist! If anything, I am talking about MORE bend in the right wrist, not less.

I am suggesting maintaining lag ALL THE WAY TO BOTH ARMS STRAIGHT,
Again, nothing about the impact alignments is different.

Sorry, I'm not getting it Ed, but your response to this question should clear it up for me... At your "low point," is the club shaft in a straight line with...

A) the left arm? or...
B) the "imaginary" line from the "center" through the hands?

It can't be both. If your answer is "A", then your "flail" doesn't reach an inline condition (and the clubhead never touches your "maximum radius.") If your answer is "B" then there is a bend of the left wrist.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ
As for sheep, I don't mind if you believe in the tooth fairy...

You have warned of our illusory beliefs in God, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, our President and Homer Kelley's Flail. And now the Tooth Fairy bites the dust!

Where is your humanity, Ed? We are but 'simple folk!' Will you leave us nothing?

 

[corky05]

Holenone, I'd say Homer Kelley is in pretty good company!

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by armourall

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

I am not suggesting a bent left wrist! If anything, I am talking about MORE bend in the right wrist, not less.

I am suggesting maintaining lag ALL THE WAY TO BOTH ARMS STRAIGHT,
Again, nothing about the impact alignments is different.

Sorry, I'm not getting it Ed, but your response to this question should clear it up for me... At your "low point," is the club shaft in a straight line with...

A) the left arm? or...
B) the "imaginary" line from the "center" through the hands?

It can't be both. If your answer is "A", then your "flail" doesn't reach an inline condition (and the clubhead never touches your "maximum radius.") If your answer is "B" then there is a bend of the left wrist.

Prior to impact, at impact, and for as long as possible past impact it is A. The right wrist is bent. Thus the maximum extension of the FORCE away from center has not yet been reached. It, the maximum extension of the FORCE, can not be reached until both arms are straight.

At both arms straight, WELL past impact, and when the arms are approx 45 degrees to the ground, the club shaft would line up with the center line, perpendicular to the shoulder line.

In a strict TGM view of the left shoulder/club - you could have throw away (out of line with the left arm)at any time after separation, but what I am saying is that you must sustain it LONGER, because the maximum extension of the force you have created does not, and can not, occur until both arms straight. Thus you have both sustained speed and MASS into impact.

YOU HAVE SUPPORTED THE ON PLANE SWINGING FORCE

If you stick with the left arm view, and blast it off your chest before impact, you have given up MASS and that is a HUGE loss of FORCE.

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by EdZ
As for sheep, I don't mind if you believe in the tooth fairy...

You have warned of our illusory beliefs in God, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, our President and Homer Kelley's Flail. And now the Tooth Fairy bites the dust!

Where is your humanity, Ed? We are but 'simple folk!' Will you leave us nothing?

Homer's flail wasn't wrong (re: the CLUB), it was incomplete re: FORCE

You have still not address the question of FORCE with anything other than "Homer said so", or statements about the CLUB.

 

[bcoak]

EDZ, are you sure your not John Kerry in disguise?

 

[corky05]

(Ed Quote)
If you stick with the left arm view, and blast it off your chest before impact, you have given up MASS and that is a HUGE loss of FORCE.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright EdZ 2004 All Rights Reserved (End Quote)

Thats a big "if", Ed! More probable in your model as your swinging around an imaginary point between your shoulders and you would have major throwaway since that point is behind the ball. If you pivot to left foot its unlikely. I'd be much more concerned if swing center was ala EdZ(pt. btween shoulders)

(another beauty quote)
In a strict TGM view of the left shoulder/club - you could have throw away (out of line with the left arm)at any time after separation, but what I am saying is that you must sustain it LONGER, because the maximum extension of the force you have created does not, and can not, occur until both arms straight. Thus you have both sustained speed and MASS into impact.(end quote)

How do you explain sustaining speed and mass after the collision of impact? Its already proven to be scientifically impossible. How do you defy the bounds of physics that the rest of us mortals are constrained to? How can you maintain lag throughout the entire circle? Impossible! Your fragile house of cards are not tumbling, their on fire!
Its insulting at the kind of details you think will just slip by. You deeply underestimate the intellect of the people that read these posts! And when your BS is rooted out, you result to profanities, followed quickly by playing victim. The only victims here are the poor people who are trying to learn a little about the swing, but, unfortunately have to sift through your rubbish posts! It is so much easier to "get it right the first time". For the new golfers sake, take a long walk off a short bridge!

 

[EdZ]

Corky - take a look at the picture on the top of this page above Brian's name.

THINK - about the force you are creating and where you are sending it, and WHY you are sending it there. You do not know or understand what I am saying, still. Amazing.

The speed loss at impact is not something I am immune to, but what I am saying is that you can minimize it by having MASS supporting impact. If you blast the arm off the chest, you have 'bounced' the clubface off the ball. If you sustain PP4, you have the entire mass of your body behind impact. You have BOTH sides of the body supporting impact.

Clearly you are still not able to see even the basics of my position, stop assuming you do, or ask Armourall, I believe he probably understands it now. I know Brian does.

Time for Brian to come out from behind the curtain, eh Corky?

 

[corky05]

I appreciate the character references and I'm sure they got what you were teaching them? Wink! Wink!
How are the outlines of the circles working out? I thought so?
Your golf ball won't give a darn about arms straight 45deg. in front of you. It won't be effected by that either, will it?
If left shoulder is center, its blast off the chest proof! Not so in your MODEL ,EdZ!

 

[ej20]

I don't know about others on this forum but my game never improves when all i do is read about obscure points in a golf swing.

I much prefer INSTRUCTION and then perhaps an explanation so that i know why i am doing what i'm doing.

I have benefited most when i read stuff like "Twistaway,put right shoulder into right pocket,etc"

I could care less about where the center of the universe is....

 

[EdZ]

ej20 - read Alex Morrison, George Knudson, Ben Hogan, Homer Kelley, watch Ben's tape, read Brian's articles, understand the EdZ drills.

An understanding of 'why' is an important step in learning the 'what' and the 'how'. If you don't know why you do something, or what it is, than how can you expect to know how to do it?

Do you care when your tires aren't balanced?

You have to know where the center is to be balanced.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ
In a strict TGM view of the left shoulder/club - you could have throw away (out of line with the left arm)at any time after separation, but what I am saying is that you must sustain it LONGER, because the maximum extension of the force you have created does not, and can not, occur until both arms straight.

This is absolute drivel. Hear The Truth:

"So -- except in [Preliminary and Adjusted Address] the entire Left Arm, the Clubshaft and the back of the Left Hand are ALWAYS positioned against the same flat plane -- the plane of the Left Wristcock motion (6-B-3-0-1}."

"Take all Strokes to the Both Arms Straight Position (6-H-0-C)."

You're in your own world, Ed. Your own world.

 

[njmp2]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

ej20 - read Alex Morrison, George Knudson, Ben Hogan, Homer Kelley, watch Ben's tape, read Brian's articles, understand the EdZ drills.

An understanding of 'why' is an important step in learning the 'what' and the 'how'. If you don't know why you do something, or what it is, than how can you expect to know how to do it?

Do you care when your tires aren't balanced?

You have to know where the center is to be balanced.

Remember just read Kelley, Morrison, Hogan, Knudson, but UNDERSTAND EdZ. He just might be the best GD swing philosopher that ever lived. And think he is here on this forum.
EdZ are you balanced when you walk, stand, run, sit, having sex? You cannot force balance, just keep it.

 

[EdZ]

Lynn - you know darn well what I'm saying.

And the entire left arm and club are NOT on that plane AFTER both arms straight. What I describe accounts for BOTH before AND after both arms straight.

Once AGAIN I will state, nothing I am saying is not supported by TGM (impact alignments etc). Homer just described the CLUB and not the FORCE you are creating and applying.

Attacking me, and not my points, doesn't make you correct, nor does avoiding the question (still).

I would think someone named Yoda would understand the FORCE

 

[corky05]

ej20, I want you to know, I absolutely concur! I'm usually a normal citizen of this site. Look at my post history. I believe to learn, I should listen a lot more than I talk. And the few posts I've had in the past are solicitations for help.
But, one can only take so much! This is not a conundrum, "chicken, egg thing". This is a habitual stream of disimformation that complicates matters for those that might not grasp it as well as you or others. What did you think, the first time you heard EdZ referring to a portion of the downswing as the "Venturi Effect"? Or,"It is a question of physics (swinging) vs. geometry (hitting)", or "Of course both require an understanding of anatomy. If you first learn what the club 'should' do (geometery) then what it actually does (physics) you can learn how to best use your body to support that understanding (anatomy)." (Music in background)"The invisible point between the shoulders connected to the tailbone" Great song!
I'm in the same boat as you. I want my information practical vs. complicated. Sometimes complicated is neccesary, but, it doesn't have to be complicated and incorrect. At the end of the day, what's the value of the forum if it is allowed to be watered down with inaccuracies?
There are still a lot of great topics right now. This one now has become a matter of principal. If you don't stand for something, your gonna fall for "Venturi Effect".

 

[EdZ]

Does the angle of attack of the club effect the spin on the ball? Does the compression of the ball effect the spin of the ball?

Lynn - I know you understand my view, look at the picture on the top of this page above Brian's name.

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by njmp2

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

ej20 - read Alex Morrison, George Knudson, Ben Hogan, Homer Kelley, watch Ben's tape, read Brian's articles, understand the EdZ drills.

An understanding of 'why' is an important step in learning the 'what' and the 'how'. If you don't know why you do something, or what it is, than how can you expect to know how to do it?

Do you care when your tires aren't balanced?

You have to know where the center is to be balanced.

Remember just read Kelley, Morrison, Hogan, Knudson, but UNDERSTAND EdZ. He just might be the best GD swing philosopher that ever lived. And think he is here on this forum.
EdZ are you balanced when you walk, stand, run, sit, having sex? You cannot force balance, just keep it.

Which is a heck of a lot harder to do if you don't know where the center of the force swinging around you is.

 

[corky05]

ej, Would you consider putting your name in the same sentence as; Hogan, Kelley, Morrison, Manzella, Holenone,etc? It Baudy and Audacious. Would you copyright your posts? I hope you can see where I'm coming from? We are not dealing with a garden variety dude. He's living in a fantasy with regards to his stature in the teaching community(harmless) and with regards to the information he is passing on these boards(Not Harmless)

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

If you stick with the left arm view, and blast it off your chest before impact, you have given up MASS and that is a HUGE loss of FORCE.

This is true only in a world where the Law of Conservation of Momentum has been repealed. The World of EdZ.

For those interested in the way The World For The Rest Of Us works, study the concept in 2-K. Or in the dictionary.

 

[EdZ]

You wouldn't bother trying to discredit me if that were true corky, nor would Lynn.