A controversial subject
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quote:Originally posted by efnef
Ed,live in the physical world, dude. Lag is shaft lag, not some invisible force. Your mumbo jumbo is irrelevant to the physical world.
Maintain lag, bent right arm, clubhead strikes little ball, little ball goes forward, clubhead strikes big ball, dirt/sand/grass goes forward, both arms straight, left shoulder/left arm/left hand/clubshaft aligned, and lag be gone.
It's all in the pretty picture on Page 183 in Golf Digest Nov. 2004.
I know I'm wasting my time, but hey, I enjoy wrestlin' with the occassional pig and gettin' dirty an' all as much as the next guy.
Rereading my own post, I should have stated, "Lag is clubhead lag." Doesn't change my meaning, though. I apologize for my mistake.
the ONLY person who as demonstrated that they actually understand my position is Armourall. You may 'assume' you understand it, but from all comments and responses, you do not.
And yet not ONE of you who disagrees with me has supported your position of why you feel the center of FORCE is the 'moving' left shoulder.
Yes, people who UNDERSTAND my position can certainly disagree. I have no problem with that at all, and never have.
And yet not ONE of you who disagrees with me has supported your position of why you feel the center of FORCE is the 'moving' left shoulder.
Yes, people who UNDERSTAND my position can certainly disagree. I have no problem with that at all, and never have.
Turfspanker
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Oh Jeez, why do I get sucked into this. I guess it's because I care.
Pressure point 4 is not the center of your force Ed. But it is the first contact point in Swinging that drives the "force" downplane. (6-M-1 "acceleration of a lagging Component will cease at the instant it achieves and In-Line position with its immediately preceding Component". "Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered and timed as teh players understanding and skill permit".)
It is the first of 4 accumulators that load the "force" and as momentum is transfered (10-19-C for the swingers process) to the rest of the accumulators. In most cases, the accumulators release in series. #4 is the master accumulator (6-B-4-0) and the first to be released usually prior to impact "released before or at the line of site to the ball".
Spanker
Pressure point 4 is not the center of your force Ed. But it is the first contact point in Swinging that drives the "force" downplane. (6-M-1 "acceleration of a lagging Component will cease at the instant it achieves and In-Line position with its immediately preceding Component". "Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered and timed as teh players understanding and skill permit".)
It is the first of 4 accumulators that load the "force" and as momentum is transfered (10-19-C for the swingers process) to the rest of the accumulators. In most cases, the accumulators release in series. #4 is the master accumulator (6-B-4-0) and the first to be released usually prior to impact "released before or at the line of site to the ball".
Spanker
I'm not sure what you are addressing here Spanker? There is a distinction between 'how' force is generated, and 'where' in 3 dimensional space it travels, and 'why'.
I don't disagree that PP4 is an important part of 'how' the hands are moved. We may disagree about exactly how long PP4 should be maintained, but we do not disagree about its importance in 'generation' of force.
Armourall, Its in the breaking 90 section "Improve your ball contact", however the same phenomena can be observed on the cover of the magazine, it was just a better angle and clearer picture. John Daly's clubhead is ahead of the shaft after impact.Ed maintained lag remained until much later. EdZs hypothesis that in a good swing the lag is retained, until the arms are both straight, club straight at 45degrees is an impossibility. The position has been disproved. We didn't have to agree to disagree, Ed. I just decided to blow your idea to smithereens.
Only in your view Corky. Way to ignore my last post on the matter re: looking at the history of players learning to maintain lag longer over the years.
Does the clubhead pass the center line before both arms straight?
Yes or no?
http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/80234/1/3117535
Turfspanker
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YOUR FORCE Ed. Not mine
Spanker
THE force Spanker.
So are you saying PP4 is the center of the swings force in your view? That the entire motion revolves around PP4?
Yes bcoak, equipment makes some difference, but the physics and geometry and anatomy of the golf swing hasn't changed. The requirements of applying efficient force have not changed.
You insist we don't understand you. You've been blown up. You scamper and hide for cover in the touchy/feely, ambiguous lingo, to try to deflect the embarassment. Your science, physics, anatomy suck, and your idea doesn't hold water. The picture was only to finally shut you up. But, if you need one more parting shot? Stew on this, Your incorrect swing center and normal axis tilt plus a teed up driver equal a collision with the turf 8-10 inches behind the ball.
Force is not as mystical as you would let on, Ed! Gravity, Our muscles pulling the butt of the club toward the ball, our pivot, are all examples of force. They are real,tangible and applied to the striking of a golf ball with parts of the anatomy that don't have to be imagined. Not invisible and mystical! Your a mess, Ed!
Force is not as mystical as you would let on, Ed! Gravity, Our muscles pulling the butt of the club toward the ball, our pivot, are all examples of force. They are real,tangible and applied to the striking of a golf ball with parts of the anatomy that don't have to be imagined. Not invisible and mystical! Your a mess, Ed!
Turfspanker
New
Not what I said.
Ed, you have read the book, you know what I am saying.
Spanker
Ed, you have read the book, you know what I am saying.
Spanker
Using the pictures provided it was impossible to reconcile the quote below , however it supported the norm.
(ed quote)
Lag ceases to exist in my view, at both arms straight. That is lag 'pressure'. You must maintain lag until that point in a good swing. At impact the 'whip' motion is IN THE HANDS (see Hogan p 102, and the pic I posted of him). You must 'straighten the rope' at both arms straight. Send the FORCE to both arms straight. Both arms straight is ALWAYS in front of the ball, it is always at 90 degrees to the shoulder line. The angle of the shoulder line can and will vary based on ball position, club length and desired impact hand location.(End quote)
(ed quote)
Lag ceases to exist in my view, at both arms straight. That is lag 'pressure'. You must maintain lag until that point in a good swing. At impact the 'whip' motion is IN THE HANDS (see Hogan p 102, and the pic I posted of him). You must 'straighten the rope' at both arms straight. Send the FORCE to both arms straight. Both arms straight is ALWAYS in front of the ball, it is always at 90 degrees to the shoulder line. The angle of the shoulder line can and will vary based on ball position, club length and desired impact hand location.(End quote)
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