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quote:Originally posted by armourall

quote:Originally posted by corky05

They don't maintain lag beyond the vertical allignments of the swing center(left Shoulder). Pictures don't lie ,Ed!
Page 183 Nov 04' Golf digest.
Ed, is the clubhead ahead of the shaft immediately after the vertical alignments of left shoulder, hands, and clubshaft?
Yes! No ambiguity! No misunderstanding!

Therefore swing center lies at left shoulder. Case closed!



Actually, the clubhead passes the shaft well before impact. ;)

The clubhead, or the sweetspot?
 
quote:Originally posted by efnef

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

You really must stop responding like Bush. Insisting you are correct, does not make you correct corky! No WMD's, losses of jobs, chaos in a 'free' iraq, holding people without trial - yet it is a rosey world in the land of illusions.

When does the clubhead pass the 'center line' in your picture, it is THAT line that represents sustaining lag in my view. We agree that it must not pass the left wrist - because that is HOW the force is generated, it is not THE force you have generated.

Again - you speak of the club, I speak of the FORCE you generate and apply.

Ed,live in the physical world, dude. Lag is shaft lag, not some invisible force. Your mumbo jumbo is irrelevant to the physical world.

Maintain lag, bent right arm, clubhead strikes little ball, little ball goes forward, clubhead strikes big ball, dirt/sand/grass goes forward, both arms straight, left shoulder/left arm/left hand/clubshaft aligned, and lag be gone.

It's all in the pretty picture on Page 183 in Golf Digest Nov. 2004.

I know I'm wasting my time, but hey, I enjoy wrestlin' with the occassional pig and gettin' dirty an' all as much as the next guy. :D

Rereading my own post, I should have stated, "Lag is clubhead lag." Doesn't change my meaning, though. I apologize for my mistake.
 
quote:Originally posted by efnef

Mumbo, meet Jumbo. Jumbo, meet Mumbo. Pleased to meet you. Likewise, I'm sure...

Oh, wise father figure, perhaps someday, maybe, just maybe, I will attain your wisdom and insight.
;) oh! theres that wink smiley again! lol|
 
Ed, people who understand your feeble position CAN disagree with it. Why do you always insist people that disagree fail to understand it. Is that how you live on Mount Olympus with the other misundertstood and infallible gods? Time for a reality check Edward
 

EdZ

New
the ONLY person who as demonstrated that they actually understand my position is Armourall. You may 'assume' you understand it, but from all comments and responses, you do not.

And yet not ONE of you who disagrees with me has supported your position of why you feel the center of FORCE is the 'moving' left shoulder.

Yes, people who UNDERSTAND my position can certainly disagree. I have no problem with that at all, and never have.
 

EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by njmp2

Ed, people who understand your feeble position CAN disagree with it. Why do you always insist people that disagree fail to understand it. Is that how you live on Mount Olympus with the other misundertstood and infallible gods? Time for a reality check Edward

And yet you continue to attack ME with comments like this, rather than defend your position.
 

EdZ

New
Really, how so? I don't attack PEOPLE. I do discuss their positions. People attack me, and I call them on it. Simple. Someone is being rude, I call them on it. Simple.

I 'continually' attack?

Prove it, before you make such accusations.
 
Oh Jeez, why do I get sucked into this. I guess it's because I care.
Pressure point 4 is not the center of your force Ed. But it is the first contact point in Swinging that drives the "force" downplane. (6-M-1 "acceleration of a lagging Component will cease at the instant it achieves and In-Line position with its immediately preceding Component". "Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered and timed as teh players understanding and skill permit".)
It is the first of 4 accumulators that load the "force" and as momentum is transfered (10-19-C for the swingers process) to the rest of the accumulators. In most cases, the accumulators release in series. #4 is the master accumulator (6-B-4-0) and the first to be released usually prior to impact "released before or at the line of site to the ball".

Spanker
 

EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by Turfspanker

Oh Jeez, why do I get sucked into this. I guess it's because I care.
Pressure point 4 is not the center of your force Ed. But it is the first contact point in Swinging that drives the "force" downplane. (6-M-1 "acceleration of a lagging Component will cease at the instant it achieves and In-Line position with its immediately preceding Component". "Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered and timed as teh players understanding and skill permit".)
It is the first of 4 accumulators that load the "force" and as momentum is transfered (10-19-C for the swingers process) to the rest of the accumulators. In most cases, the accumulators release in series. #4 is the master accumulator (6-B-4-0) and the first to be released usually prior to impact "released before or at the line of site to the ball".

Spanker

I'm not sure what you are addressing here Spanker? There is a distinction between 'how' force is generated, and 'where' in 3 dimensional space it travels, and 'why'.

I don't disagree that PP4 is an important part of 'how' the hands are moved. We may disagree about exactly how long PP4 should be maintained, but we do not disagree about its importance in 'generation' of force.
 
Armourall, Its in the breaking 90 section "Improve your ball contact", however the same phenomena can be observed on the cover of the magazine, it was just a better angle and clearer picture. John Daly's clubhead is ahead of the shaft after impact.Ed maintained lag remained until much later. EdZs hypothesis that in a good swing the lag is retained, until the arms are both straight, club straight at 45degrees is an impossibility. The position has been disproved. We didn't have to agree to disagree, Ed. I just decided to blow your idea to smithereens.

quote:Originally posted by armourall

quote:Originally posted by corky05

Armourall, What is your take on this picture on page 183 Nov GD 04'. I'm sorry I don't have the skills to put the pic up. I hope someone will be able to post it for me.

Which article is that, Corky? Is it posted online?

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazines/index.ssf?/gdmag/2004/11/index.html
 

EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by corky05

Armourall, Its in the breaking 90 section "Improve your ball contact", however the same phenomena can be observed on the cover of the magazine, it was just a better angle and clearer picture. John Daly's clubhead is ahead of the shaft after impact.Ed maintained lag remained until much later. EdZs hypothesis that in a good swing the lag is retained, until the arms are both straight, club straight at 45degrees is an impossibility. The position has been disproved. We didn't have to agree to disagree, Ed. I just decided to blow your idea to smithereens.

quote:Originally posted by armourall

quote:Originally posted by corky05

Armourall, What is your take on this picture on page 183 Nov GD 04'. I'm sorry I don't have the skills to put the pic up. I hope someone will be able to post it for me.

Which article is that, Corky? Is it posted online?

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazines/index.ssf?/gdmag/2004/11/index.html

Only in your view Corky. Way to ignore my last post on the matter re: looking at the history of players learning to maintain lag longer over the years.

Does the clubhead pass the center line before both arms straight?

Yes or no?

http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/80234/1/3117535
 

bcoak

New
"looking at the history of players learning to maintain lag longer over the years."
I think you need to take equipment changes/advances into consideration too.
 

EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by Turfspanker

quote:Originally posted by Turfspanker

Pressure point 4 is not the center of your force Ed.
Spanker
YOUR FORCE Ed. Not mine

Spanker

THE force Spanker.

So are you saying PP4 is the center of the swings force in your view? That the entire motion revolves around PP4?

Yes bcoak, equipment makes some difference, but the physics and geometry and anatomy of the golf swing hasn't changed. The requirements of applying efficient force have not changed.
 
You insist we don't understand you. You've been blown up. You scamper and hide for cover in the touchy/feely, ambiguous lingo, to try to deflect the embarassment. Your science, physics, anatomy suck, and your idea doesn't hold water. The picture was only to finally shut you up. But, if you need one more parting shot? Stew on this, Your incorrect swing center and normal axis tilt plus a teed up driver equal a collision with the turf 8-10 inches behind the ball.
Force is not as mystical as you would let on, Ed! Gravity, Our muscles pulling the butt of the club toward the ball, our pivot, are all examples of force. They are real,tangible and applied to the striking of a golf ball with parts of the anatomy that don't have to be imagined. Not invisible and mystical! Your a mess, Ed!

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

You really must stop responding like Bush. Insisting you are correct, does not make you correct corky! No WMD's, losses of jobs, chaos in a 'free' iraq, holding people without trial - yet it is a rosey world in the land of illusions.

When does the clubhead pass the 'center line' in your picture, it is THAT line that represents sustaining lag in my view. We agree that it must not pass the left wrist - because that is HOW the force is generated, it is not THE force you have generated.

Again - you speak of the club, I speak of the FORCE you generate and apply.
 
Ed, I looked at all the examples you gave and not a single one could maintain lag beyond the vertical alignments of correct swing center (left shoulder),hands, and clubshaft. In fact the flaws in your concept was more pronounced due to the equipment.
 
Using the pictures provided it was impossible to reconcile the quote below , however it supported the norm.
(ed quote)
Lag ceases to exist in my view, at both arms straight. That is lag 'pressure'. You must maintain lag until that point in a good swing. At impact the 'whip' motion is IN THE HANDS (see Hogan p 102, and the pic I posted of him). You must 'straighten the rope' at both arms straight. Send the FORCE to both arms straight. Both arms straight is ALWAYS in front of the ball, it is always at 90 degrees to the shoulder line. The angle of the shoulder line can and will vary based on ball position, club length and desired impact hand location.(End quote)
 
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