Michael Finney
New
future Anti-Summit speaker.....
Alan Hocknell of Callaway.....
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Michael Finney
New
Todd Beach - interesting cog comments late - vertical gear effect mentioned....
softconsult
New
Don't you wish that there could be a simple question asked. How does the sole plate gizmo change the face angle? Answer is that it is marketing BS. Sole plate has no effect on the face angle, unless you sole the driver and rest it on the gizmo. Gullible public eats it right up.
birly-shirly
New
interesting stuff. been reading Tom wishon, and he seems to argue that vertical GE is much exaggerated, to the point where he likes wood faces with no roll at all. bulge yes, but no roll. he says that the shaft stabilises the head much more on high and low hits than on heel/toe hits
birly-shirly
New
I see what you,'re saying but isn't that true of all face angles,whether adjustable or not. I have 1 driver with a closed face angle, and I find it a real pain to actually set it square. it's just part of my routine to sole the driver at setup, and it tends to fall closed. I haven't used one of those TM things, but I can see how it might help. the catch seems to me that once you've set the loft you need, you might need all the available face angle adjustment just to be looking at a square clubhead. if you were looking for a higher loft combined with open face, it looks like you could struggle.
Lindsey Newman
New
No it is not the same at all. With adjustable face drivers your actually changing how the club head is aligned with the shaft. Huge difference.
birly-shirly
New
Sorry Lindsey, I don't follow - what's not the same as what?
As I see it, a non-adjustable shut faced driver sits closed when you rest it on the ground with the shaft in a reasonable playing position. If you don't ground the club, then you can obviously rotate the face open and closed without changing the location of the shaft in space, but you also change the effective loft. TM seems to be offering the ability to offset the face angle and loft adjustment - which sounds like a good design to me. All I'm saying is that when they say you get a range of adjustability of +/- 2* loft and +/-4* face angle, you don't have the full range of adjustability in all directions.
I think in future years we'll see TM offer multiple heads again, with a range of "default" lofts, so as to offer the max amount of adjustment in the range that's most suitable for an individual player.
As I see it, a non-adjustable shut faced driver sits closed when you rest it on the ground with the shaft in a reasonable playing position. If you don't ground the club, then you can obviously rotate the face open and closed without changing the location of the shaft in space, but you also change the effective loft. TM seems to be offering the ability to offset the face angle and loft adjustment - which sounds like a good design to me. All I'm saying is that when they say you get a range of adjustability of +/- 2* loft and +/-4* face angle, you don't have the full range of adjustability in all directions.
I think in future years we'll see TM offer multiple heads again, with a range of "default" lofts, so as to offer the max amount of adjustment in the range that's most suitable for an individual player.
lia41985
New member
Lindsey, that's true but since some people think we're only hitting with the mass of the head and only six inches of the shaft, then what? I agree with birly and think that the "face open-ness angle" (left-right) and loft angle (up-down) are the important elements. Nevertheless, the relationship of the head to shaft, in terms of orientation, must be taken into account by the golfer and calibrated into his swing (e.g. figuring out how much tumble or how much gamma is needed with what HSP and AoA, etc.).
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softconsult
New
Taylormade marketing meeting prior to introduction of Face Control Technology, "Since we can't copy Tileist's sleeve which actually does adjust for Face Angle and Loft, what can we dream up?" "General golf club buying public is clueless about golf club design, so let's do a sole plate thingy and lie." One member of the team formerly worked behind the scenes in national politics. He was the one that came up with the words "Cut" and "Investment" as substitiutes for "Slowing an Increase" and "Spending". He resoundingly said, "Yep, that'll fly."
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The smartest folks in the business. The Paul Wood's, the Alan Hocknell's....
"since some people..."
Please.
Michael Finney
New
When you buy a tv, you appeal to authority....or do you build your own hd monitors?
Gmab
Gmab
Brian Manzella
Administrator
So Luke,
Paul Wood's word not good enough for you?
Paul Wood's word not good enough for you?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
You said "Some folks have claimed"....and I gave you the some folks....
BTW, You do realize that when you are dangling a full club, that is NOT the same as the clubhead and some of the bottom of the shaft?
BTW, You do realize that when you are dangling a full club, that is NOT the same as the clubhead and some of the bottom of the shaft?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
You can not just dismiss two of the smartest guys in the business off handed.
Please explain why you wish to dismiss them as just "names....."
Please explain why you wish to dismiss them as just "names....."
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