Alan Hocknell of Callaway.....

[birly-shirly]

Yeah, yeah. The fabled, fallible experts who miss something so obvious only an internet discussion board could spot it. The internet would grind to a halt tomorrow without that sort of manufactured doubt. But real life would go on, strangely unaffected...

 

[lia41985]

Que?

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Sorry Lindsey, I don't follow - what's not the same as what?

As I see it, a non-adjustable shut faced driver sits closed when you rest it on the ground with the shaft in a reasonable playing position. If you don't ground the club, then you can obviously rotate the face open and closed without changing the location of the shaft in space, but you also change the effective loft. TM seems to be offering the ability to offset the face angle and loft adjustment - which sounds like a good design to me. All I'm saying is that when they say you get a range of adjustability of +/- 2* loft and +/-4* face angle, you don't have the full range of adjustability in all directions.

I think in future years we'll see TM offer multiple heads again, with a range of "default" lofts, so as to offer the max amount of adjustment in the range that's most suitable for an individual player.

What I am exactly saying is that a Titleist adjustment is not the same as the Taylormade adjustment. The Titleist adjustment actually alters the club, whereas the TM kick plate is baloney.

 

[Michael Finney]

I wish my predecessors had appealed to authority more - maybe we would be further down the road to understanding the golf swing.

Why do you get to appeal to guys like Karl Popper and we don't have that right?

A static, unclamped club has its center of mass. A dynamic "club head and 6" of shaft" has its center of mass. The ball will behave much differently when introduced to both at 100 mph. I wonder what Serge Gracovetsky would say? - but alas, we cannot ask him, we must discover all for ourselves.

Your act is tired.

 

[lia41985]

And what helps to align the club on it's dynamic journey to and through impact, Michael? And how does aligning the ball's CoM with the club's CoM alter the collision physics? Hence the clamping issue...

My work here makes me grow tired.

If you can't understand how backwards you have it in claiming that I'm merely appealing to Popper, well, I don't know what else to say.

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Dr. Gracovetsky would perhaps opine on the fact that grown men fuss over such detail because of frustration at the fact that they do not themselves perform the athletic motions well enough. Instead, because of their frustration, they resort to amateurish analysis to account for the seemingly mystical nature of the performance. Really, with a little more practice, intuition, and patience they will grow attuned to the rhythm and nature. It's like speaking of back muscles when we should be discussing the fascia.

 

[Michael Finney]

Your WORK here? No, you have it all wrong. You get on here and beat the forum to death with your arrogant approach and flaunt your personality disorder for all to see. You cannot have it both ways - you cannot appeal to authority to make your arguments. You have to do all the research yourself and then prove your theories. You've made your bed.....

 

[lia41985]

Arrogant approach? Personality disorder?

This coming from one half of the dynamic duo that every couple years discovers the unassailable truth.

Ironic how cathartic the internet can be. You can frame the murderer but in the end only crucify your damn self. Where in the heck do you get off, Finney?

When I was on your side I wasn't arrogant, I was doing a "great job" (click the following link): http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfin...ng-include-no-deceleration-34.html#post238981

Work, lol, right...

You're silly. Have my secretary make an appointment to bullshit with you later. I'm busy right now.

Who's authority have I appealed to? God, he great. And...

All I ask is you all try to figure it out for yourselves.

 

[magicmarker]

What I am exactly saying is that a Titleist adjustment is not the same as the Taylormade adjustment. The Titleist adjustment actually alters the club, whereas the TM kick plate is baloney.

The Taylor Made adjustment...

In fairness to the word 'adjustment' the Taylor Made sole plate is the equivalent to taking a piece of chewed bubble gum and sticking it on the bottom of your driver and then shaping that piece of gum to determine how the club would rest on the ground. Above the gum line, nothing is being (independently) adjusted.

 

[Michael Finney]

You've made your bed.....you aren't allowed to appeal to authority (by your own rule) and you aren't qualified to do any peer reviewed research yourself...so, in essence, you're fucked!

 

[jimmyt]

You've made your bed.....you aren't allowed to appeal to authority (by your own rule) and you aren't qualified to do any peer reviewed research yourself...so, in essence, you're fucked!

You go girl.........

 

[lia41985]

Whose authority am I trying to appeal to? How does your answer to that question allow you to embrace your own ignorance and to ignore what's merely inconvenient for your theoretical conceptions?
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[ZAP]

I am still trying to figure out why we would launch the ball at the club. Or have I been playing golf backwards and from the wrong side too?

 

[Michael Finney]

Whose authority am I trying to appeal to? How does your answer to that question allow you to embrace your own ignorance and to ignore what's merely inconvenient for your theoretical conceptions?

you have two choices, lia......appeal to authority or conduct the research yourself.....since you can't do #1 and aren't qualified to do #2, then you offer nothing.....eliminating #1 was the big mistake - that really narrows your potential usefulness...

it was fun while it lasted, though - go spend your time elsewhere and DO WORK

 

[lia41985]

I'm not qualified to run experiments?

That's how we'll dismiss the clamping issue?

That's how you'll try to.

Sleight of hand?

Nah, merely a desperate and obvious maneuver.

 

[lia41985]

Speaking of conducting research...what about this from before?

Since I have a student with a +5 handicap and about 115+ mph clubhead speed that wants to have his swing captured on a high-end 3D system, and Dr. Wurzer and Art Maffei both have suggested that all interested parties get together for a capture/analysis session, and they are in Southern Cal, not too far from the major manufacturers and research universities. We are going to set up a day for some 3D + other technology session. Also, Billy McKinney is close by and may have another high-end student to capture.

Anyone is invited to attend. My student and I are going no matter what, running tests and having a blast learning about the swing.

We will video the session and post it on this site.

Link: http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17825-what-kind-release-can-effective-swing-include-no-deceleration-43.html#post239352

I suppose y'all are qualified to run experiments? Even though you have no scientific experience? Oh, you'll rely here and there on Art and whoever else?

I can do the same and still not appeal to authority. That's what happens when you read these papers with a critical eye, Finney.

What about the clamp issue? Why not run the experiment for yourself or see it run for yourself?

The funny this is when you can't answer a question that's directly addressed to you (and this is the same for Brian) all I hear is names of scientists "shout out" in ALL CAPS as a "reply". Lol.

 

[Michael Finney]

Yes. You are not qualified to run experiments.

Clamping issue is moot - last i checked, everyone holds the club tight enough so it won't fly out of their hands during the swing.....the big difference is the static COM and the dynamic COM.....appealing to wood, nesbit, hocknell, and zick.....have you done any research of your own on the clamping issue? I doubt it - and last I checked, that's your only out since you cannot appeal to authority. So really, I don't see where you are qualified to have this discussion. You can assert your opinion, but it does not hold any weight.

 

[Michael Finney]

We are not qualified to do research - that's why I appeal to authority.

 

[Kevin Shields]

We've come across some real nut jobs on here, but this guy has moved it to a different level. I thought Jeffy was bad....a little scary

 

[lia41985]

So have you and your named scientists, all of whom I wish the best to, run the experiments? Have any of you researched the issue? Why does my opinion hold zero weight?

 

[lia41985]

If you're not qualified to do research and therefore appeal to authority, when you are asked a question, do you just let someone else give you your "answer" or, even shoddily, merely give someone else's name (lol)? And that's what you spread as "truth". Very scary.