Ben Hogan '55 swing analysis by Brian Manzella
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David Alford
New
Now, by "perfect golf shots", I don't mean I would hole out every time from the fairway and would have holes in one on every par three.
Hogan himself, by hard standards, felt HE only hit one or two perfect shots per round. But he hit a lot of really excellent golf shots, and thats what I mean.
Hogan himself, by hard standards, felt HE only hit one or two perfect shots per round. But he hit a lot of really excellent golf shots, and thats what I mean.
David Alford
New
And my point is, stop belittling yourself with saying how smart or gifted guys like Hogan or Moe Norma were. The problem is YOUR technique 9 times out of 10. There is no deep thinking going on when you hit a ball. Hogan had a great swing even into his 70's. How many pushups or chinups do you think he could do by then. What would his 100 yd. dash time be?
Got it?
Got it?
birdie_man
New
So why not the 55 swing in this thread or another one...?
Why would Hogan change it if he already had the ultimate?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I just had a long telephone conversation with David Alford. He is a really good guy and has a LOT of good things to say about the swing and ball-strikers.
The funny thing I have learned about the internet, is that the written word just doesn't convey like audio or video.
So, David and I will be taping a segment about Hogan and the other "great ball-strikers" and I'll post it up soon.
The funny thing I have learned about the internet, is that the written word just doesn't convey like audio or video.
So, David and I will be taping a segment about Hogan and the other "great ball-strikers" and I'll post it up soon.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Sorry Joe...
My mission is to SAVE GOLF from bad information, not to start any wars unless they will help.
David is a bright guy and a credit to this forum.
For those who have been around the forum awile, you may remember a guy name eminem.
I had a "talk" with him too, and now he is a born-again TGMer and credit to this site and many.
My mission is to SAVE GOLF from bad information, not to start any wars unless they will help.
David is a bright guy and a credit to this forum.
For those who have been around the forum awile, you may remember a guy name eminem.
I had a "talk" with him too, and now he is a born-again TGMer and credit to this site and many.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Sorry Joe,
I will ask him in the discussion.
I will ask him in the discussion.
Brian - please ask him if he is this person
http://archive.salon.com/directory/topics/david_alford/
There is a reference to golf in this article
http://www.salon.com/books/it/1999/12/17/david_alford/index.html
http://archive.salon.com/directory/topics/david_alford/
There is a reference to golf in this article
http://www.salon.com/books/it/1999/12/17/david_alford/index.html
Nevermind brian - This is the golf forum DA
http://hometown.aol.com/davidleealford/myhomepage/02.jpg
http://hometown.aol.com/davidleealford/myhomepage/02.jpg
David Alford
New
Mizuno Joe, I am not the David Alford of those articles. What is your goal here, to nail me to a cross? The point of my posts above is try to get people who kiss arse to the genius and physical ability of great players like Hogan and Moe Norman, to stop belittling themselves. As great as Tiger is, I see kids all the time in the gym who are bigger and stronger than him. If people would realize their own potential, most of us could hit the ball flush and straight just about every time. My philosophy is, never blame yourself for a bad shot, blame your technique or erroneous information. The average golfer can't succeed very well because of misinformatiion, or lack of valid information. The golf ball is
merciless in it's appraisal...
Yet, if you have the right information and do the right things, the golf ball doesn't care if you are Ben Hogan or David Alford, it will yield...
merciless in it's appraisal...
Yet, if you have the right information and do the right things, the golf ball doesn't care if you are Ben Hogan or David Alford, it will yield...
David Alford
New
I'll correct myself...I really don't think the greats were geniuses. Hogan miight have been IQ wise, although there also are a lot of people on this forum whose IQ is up there. Brian and I can discuss some of these points, perhaps. It really doesn't matter, because any great golf swing is understandable by virtually anyone and 2) it's not like you are thinking complex golf theory when you stand over the ball.
David Alford
New
Mizuno Joe, I didn't know that Hawaii pic of me was still floating around in cyberspace. I put it on my personal page briefly to answer my crtitics who were absolutely convinced I was a broken down, fat arse, out of shape fake. Time to take it down, if I can. I really don't care, though.
birdie_man
New
I don't know that he was trying to do anything really....although you'd have to ask him about that....seemed more like he was trying to I.D. those sites as yours...and that pic of you.
....or maybe he pokin at you by posting that pic of you in the Speedo........hehehe
. I dunno....I didn't see that much harm in it at the time.
....
More importantly though.....
I actually really like the former two of your last three posts. Right on David.
"The point of my posts above is try to get people who kiss arse to the genius and physical ability of great players like Hogan and Moe Norman, to stop belittling themselves."
"If people would realize their own potential..."
Right on man.
....It drives me nuts when people kiss Tiger's ass. Seems to contradict the fact that they're playing AGAINST him....give credit where credit is due- he's a obviously a GREAT golfer....but don't gush over him like he's a friggen god.....try to get better. It just doesn't sound competitive when other players talk about him like he's playing a different tour....you can tell they doubt their own ability and potential. I bet Tiger loves to hear that stuff....it prolly feeds him.
Who knows....maybe I like to think this way because I've never been there playing against him....but I don't think so....that attitude has bugged me my whole life (like the kid who thought he was the best at tetherball). Just seems like a p*ssy way to go about things to me.
I'd like to think I can get as good as anyone really....why not try anyway....what have you got to lose right? Truly you can only gain when you try to reach your own potential.
And about Hogan....I think you're right...
....he was the best because he wanted to be the best....that's it (same with Moe and anyone else....Moe tried so hard to put the puzzle together his hands would bleed from practice). He was the most obsessed (about all aspects of his game- I'd bet my life that he wasn't just obsessed about perfecting his swing)...worked the hardest...and had the most "fight in him."
Remember....he started as a pro in 1931....think about it- when did he win his first major? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....did a lot of thinkin' and practicin' during that time. A lot of improvin' since 1931.
You'd just have to be as obsessed as these guys...I don't think that's something you can force (i.e. just "working hard").....but then again, a lot of guys are pretty obsessed and beat a lot of balls....maybe they're just working on the wrong things- looking in the wrong places. Who knows.
"Champions aren’t made in gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them- a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill.
-Muhammad Ali
I guess will becomes skill if you think about it.
I think you make a pretty good point David.
....or maybe he pokin at you by posting that pic of you in the Speedo........hehehe
. I dunno....I didn't see that much harm in it at the time.....
More importantly though.....
I actually really like the former two of your last three posts. Right on David.
"The point of my posts above is try to get people who kiss arse to the genius and physical ability of great players like Hogan and Moe Norman, to stop belittling themselves."
"If people would realize their own potential..."
Right on man.
....It drives me nuts when people kiss Tiger's ass. Seems to contradict the fact that they're playing AGAINST him....give credit where credit is due- he's a obviously a GREAT golfer....but don't gush over him like he's a friggen god.....try to get better. It just doesn't sound competitive when other players talk about him like he's playing a different tour....you can tell they doubt their own ability and potential. I bet Tiger loves to hear that stuff....it prolly feeds him.
Who knows....maybe I like to think this way because I've never been there playing against him....but I don't think so....that attitude has bugged me my whole life (like the kid who thought he was the best at tetherball
). Just seems like a p*ssy way to go about things to me.I'd like to think I can get as good as anyone really....why not try anyway....what have you got to lose right? Truly you can only gain when you try to reach your own potential.
And about Hogan....I think you're right...
....he was the best because he wanted to be the best....that's it (same with Moe and anyone else....Moe tried so hard to put the puzzle together his hands would bleed from practice). He was the most obsessed (about all aspects of his game- I'd bet my life that he wasn't just obsessed about perfecting his swing)...worked the hardest...and had the most "fight in him."
Remember....he started as a pro in 1931....think about it- when did he win his first major? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....did a lot of thinkin' and practicin' during that time. A lot of improvin' since 1931.
You'd just have to be as obsessed as these guys...I don't think that's something you can force (i.e. just "working hard").....but then again, a lot of guys are pretty obsessed and beat a lot of balls....maybe they're just working on the wrong things- looking in the wrong places. Who knows.
"Champions aren’t made in gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them- a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill.
-Muhammad Ali
I guess will becomes skill if you think about it.
I think you make a pretty good point David.
No. You said that you had EXACTLY duplicated Hogan's swing, hit lots of perfect shots, and implied that the only difference between you and Hogan was his RECORD. You said, "I will never have his record". I was trying to find a golfing record of any kind on you, and couldn't find anything. So, it's probably more indicative of your ability, to say that you will never have the record of the 1000s of good players who have tried and failed at Q school, or the record of ams who've teed it up in the US Open and shot over 80 on Thurs and Fri.
BigBadDonkey
New
I think it's between the ears at that stage, Joe, but I see where ya coming from. Interesting discussion !
Here's what it takes to duplicate Hogan's swing. On any given day you can show up at any of the great venues - Oakmont, Oakland Hills, Pinehurst, Colonial, Congressional, etc., and from the championship tees, not only hit all the greens in regulation, but get the ball close to the pin, which means working the ball both directions with perfect trajectory and distance control. Oh one more thing - do it four days in a row in a major.
Now all you boys and girls who can do that raise your hands.
Now all you boys and girls who can do that raise your hands.
birdie_man
New
Pretty amazing feat.
Odds are against you to duplicate that. But they were against Hogan to even do that to begin with.
....ya that's pretty crazy....did he really do that? ALL greens in reg.? 4 days in a row? All those venues?
Odds are against you to duplicate that. But they were against Hogan to even do that to begin with.
....ya that's pretty crazy....did he really do that? ALL greens in reg.? 4 days in a row? All those venues?
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