Blog: '09 Masters Shows Swing Evolution - by Brian Manzella

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Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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Brian Manzella said:
I would strengthen Tiger's grip to about 15° stronger than neutral, eliminate his "pop-out," eliminate the laid-off top, take some of the arch out if his wrist at impact (the grip would effectively do it), and de-gather the marble-ize his finish.
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I don't think so. Tiger's wrist is arched out because his swing is too upright. Subconscious mind's work, Brian. You would need some extra measures to fight the subconscious mind. Hogan was aware how to fight, Woods is clueless.

Cheers
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Dariusz J. said:
Brian Manzella said:
I would strengthen Tiger's grip to about 15° stronger than neutral, eliminate his "pop-out," eliminate the laid-off top, take some of the arch out if his wrist at impact (the grip would effectively do it), and de-gather the marble-ize his finish.
Click to expand...

I don't think so. Tiger's wrist is arched out because his swing is too upright. Subconscious mind's work, Brian. You would need some extra measures to fight the subconscious mind. Hogan was aware how to fight, Woods is clueless.

Cheers
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Too upright? Dariusz, Tiger is the greatest golfer ever, period.
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

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hmm...

Dariusz J. said:
I don't think so. Tiger's wrist is arched out because his swing is too upright. Subconscious mind's work, Brian. You would need some extra measures to fight the subconscious mind. Hogan was aware how to fight, Woods is clueless.

Cheers
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You think Tiger is too upright because you think Hogan's swing is the best and Hogan's swing is shallower than Tiger's so Tiger should be more shallow.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
His left wrist is arched because his grip is so weak and TECHNICALLY the more upright the swing the more closed the face is in relation to the plane and the less the tendency there is to be arched at impact.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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tongzilla said:
You think Tiger is too upright because you think Hogan's swing is the best and Hogan's swing is shallower than Tiger's so Tiger should be more shallow.
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No. Think twice, please, before you answer this post.
Assuming a golfer stays pretty much on plane all the motion (without major plane shifts), if his plane is too high his subconscious mind will bow his lead wrist in order to bring the club to a lower plane; and viceversa. Hogan was swinging on a too low plane and this is the first reason why his lead wrist was cupped. But he was doing it purposedly because this was the effect of his brilliant concept of eliminating timing issues out of the swing.
You may say why e.g. Furyk's lead wrist is not bowed despite his very high backswing plane. The answer is simple - because his subconscious mind leads him to a huge plane shift down at transition. If he, theoretically, wants to stay on his backswing plane, his subconscious mind would palmar flex his lead wrist to a impossible degree.

Jim's answer about the grip type is valid, too.

Cheers
 
2mongoose

2mongoose

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Dariusz J. said:
I don't think so. Tiger's wrist is arched out because his swing is too upright. Subconscious mind's work, Brian. You would need some extra measures to fight the subconscious mind. Hogan was aware how to fight, Woods is clueless.

Cheers
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Can you please stop w/ the Hogan fanboy cheerleading? NOBODY cares anymore and you've told everyone 1k times already.

Start another thread about it on wrx Dariusz. That should keep you busy, BUT NOT HERE ANYMORE!

........back to thread :mad:
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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2mongoose said:
Can you please stop w/ the Hogan fanboy cheerleading? NOBODY cares anymore and you've told everyone 1k times already.

Start another thread about it on wrx Dariusz. That should keep you busy, BUT NOT HERE ANYMORE!

........back to thread :mad:
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Hogan was only an example, just as Furyk.
And who are you to tell me what to do ? If you don't like my posts, or if you are unable to discuss the merits (which appears to be more probable scenario) - just don't read them. It's so simple.

Cheers
 
tourdeep

tourdeep

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Dariusz J. said:
He may be the greatest golfer ever, but his swing motion isn't.

Cheers
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Hi Dariusz,


Right now, his swing motion is the greatest ever.

As long as he keeps pumping out the wins, the mass majority will recognize it as such provided his swing motion remains orthodox looking. Even though there are sound theoretical arguments of why there should be changes to Tiger's swing the rest of the world wants to be like Tiger...
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
Tourdeep and Curtis - of course, I do agree with you both. Period.
However, my initial participation to this thread was only about symptoms of lead wrist position and their theoretical explanations. Thus, please do not have pretensions to me because I wanted neither to start another Hogan vs. Woods contest nor to discredit totally Tiger's motion. I have just responded to Kevin's post that sounded like "Woods is the best player, therefore, his swing is perfect".
Moreover, Brian said many times what would he change in his swing and how would he fix him. If something is perfect - it does need to be fixed, right ?

Cheers
 
curtisj76

curtisj76

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The only reason I made a comment was from you calling the greatest golfer ever, "Clueless". I found that amusing. Peace
 
2mongoose

2mongoose

New
Dariusz J. said:
Hogan was only an example, just as Furyk.
And who are you to tell me what to do ? If you don't like my posts, or if you are unable to discuss the merits (which appears to be more probable scenario) - just don't read them. It's so simple.

Cheers
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You are the one incessantly points out why Hogan's motion is so superior at every moment. It wouldn't matter if Tiger won the next 10 majors in a row you'd still find some lame ass excuse for why he'll never be Hogan. Your material is sooooo old and NOBODY CARES.

I will, however, give you credit for one thing - reminding me of the ignore feature. :D
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

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mumbo jumbo baloney.

It's the grip as pointed out before.

And also Tiger arches his left wrist deliberately (i.e. it's one of the swing changes he made on purpose post 2000). Tiger knows his left wrist is slightly arched at impact and he wants it that way.
 
D

dbl

New
tourdeep said:
Hi Dariusz,


Right now, his swing motion is the greatest ever.

As long as he keeps pumping out the wins, the mass majority will recognize it as such provided his swing motion remains orthodox looking. Even though there are sound theoretical arguments of why there should be changes to Tiger's swing the rest of the world wants to be like Tiger...
Click to expand...


You guys who think TW's swing motion is the greatest should read about the shouting match he had with Haney Saturday evening of the Masters..and his Sunday comments also. TW had no clue what his swing was doing that week..it was all over the place, shots were all over the place, and he was super frustrated.

Therefore I cannot think what TW swing is being referred to, but it is not the "current" one.

Here's an article which discusses these TW outbursts
Diaz: Augusta Blues, golf world, golf, jaime daiz, pga tour, masters, tiger woods: Golf Digest Magazine
 
lia41985

lia41985

New member
From the article dbl linked:
Though they are words sure to make Haney wince, he took a bullet for his player. "Tiger worked as hard as humanly possible to come back for the Masters," said the swing instructor after the dust had settled Monday morning. "Maybe a little more tournament play would have helped, but he did everything he could. There were a lot of things that you can point to in his not winning, but all it does is point out how hard it is to win major championships."
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Yeah, really took a bullet there. F--- him.
 
G

golfspike

New
2mongoose said:
You are the one incessantly points out why Hogan's motion is so superior at every moment. It wouldn't matter if Tiger won the next 10 majors in a row you'd still find some lame ass excuse for why he'll never be Hogan. Your material is sooooo old and NOBODY CARES.

I will, however, give you credit for one thing - reminding me of the ignore feature. :D
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Well you should not care simply cause 99% will never have the ability to do what Hogan did nor will you ever figure out what he did
Aside from that , Woods aint telling what he really works on , so speculate all you like but one thing certain is Woods is into Hogan's swing
 
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