D-plane

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mrodock

mrodock

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Just stands to reason if you have a bunch of shaft lean you are going to have loft issues . . . also the face vector is going to be more out to the right . . . so if you have too much lean and a lot of "swivel" you could hit it everywhere and really low. The deal with having the right amount of lean is getting the loft that's built into the club.
 
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pecky987

New
brian, in the manzella live episode 2, mike finney asked a question about how different plane angles affect the D-plane. you were talking about how tom bartlett made his D-plane issues worse because he had a TSP downswing, and this was worse then an elbow plane. mike thought that an elbow plane downswing would cause the path to be more inside-out, but you disagreed.

i just cant see how you could be right about this, brian.

lets take it to extremes. a vertical plane (i.e croquet or a pendulum) no matter how long before low point the ball is struck, the true path will always be aimed straight.

however, a horizontal plane (i.e baseball bat-ish) if the ball was struck before low point the path would be alot inside out.

therfore, how can a more vertical plane angle (TSP) causethe path to be more inside-out than a flatter plane angle like the elbow-plane?

not trying to be argumentative, just dont understand this particular part of the D-plane
 
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holeout

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pecky987 said:
brian, in the manzella live episode 2, mike finney asked a question about how different plane angles affect the D-plane. you were talking about how tom bartlett made his D-plane issues worse because he had a TSP downswing, and this was worse then an elbow plane. mike thought that an elbow plane downswing would cause the path to be more inside-out, but you disagreed.

i just cant see how you could be right about this, brian.

lets take it to extremes. a vertical plane (i.e croquet or a pendulum) no matter how long before low point the ball is struck, the true path will always be aimed straight.

however, a horizontal plane (i.e baseball bat-ish) if the ball was struck before low point the path would be alot inside out.

therfore, how can a more vertical plane angle (TSP) causethe path to be more inside-out than a flatter plane angle like the elbow-plane?

not trying to be argumentative, just dont understand this particular part of the D-plane
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It may have something to do with the lie angle of the club.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Well....

If you want to control the TRUE PATH of the D-Plane, it would be easier to have a "less arched" path.....on paper.

I think I was just not quite on the same page during my answer on the show.

A flatter plane will always potentially be more inside-out TRUE PATH-wise.
 
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dannyc

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Jim Kobylinski said:
Here ya go....mega sweep release not a lot of delay with little forward lean to a snap release with a lot of delay and just a little forward lean.

[media]http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Movies/sweepsnap.mov[/media]
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i guess i don't get it...more lag led to more lean, right?
 
lia41985

lia41985

New member
If you do not get it, read the following.
Brian Manzella said:
Accumulator Lag, might make it easier to have too much forward lean, but you could have a sweep release and LOTS of lean, or a snap release and NONE.

Get it?

One is WHERE the release starts, and the other is HOW RELEASED it is at impact.
Click to expand...
 
mandrin

mandrin

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D-plane & lateral curving

D_plane_1.gif


Not mentioned in my opening post of this thread is that the spin axis of a golf ball is normal to the D-plane and which contains therefore the aerodynamic lift force. Figs1,2,3 show backside views of the ball (yellow) traveling towards the target. The D-plane contains the aerodynamic lift force and as soon as the D-plane has a tilt there will be a horizontal force component, as shown in Fig2,3, which causes lateral curving of the ball.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
dannyc said:
i guess i don't get it...more lag led to more lean, right?
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Yes, however not an obscene amount of lean to where you would want to "delag" someone such as Charles Howell or older Sergio; the premise was that you should delag those players because they deloft their irons too much. In the clip she is very delayed and using a snap release and doesn't have a lot of foward lean; i'd call it "average."

Which goes to my point that you can have a snap/late release and still not an over amount of forward lean.
 
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dannyc

New
Jim Kobylinski said:
Yes, however not an obscene amount of lean to where you would want to "delag" someone such as Charles Howell or older Sergio; the premise was that you should delag those players because they deloft their irons too much. In the clip she is very delayed and using a snap release and doesn't have a lot of foward lean; i'd call it "average."

Which goes to my point that you can have a snap/late release and still not an over amount of forward lean.
Click to expand...

ok...gotcha.
so what are some ways to control shaft lean (other than ball position)?
 
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James Marshall (Hogan1953)

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Would the appropriate amount of fwd lean for different clubs be that which is built into the design of the club itself with the grip end at varying degrees ahead of the clubface? This would suggest that with the driver the hands are virtually in line with the head at impact but with the sand wedge are clearly ahead.
 
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James Marshall (Hogan1953)

New member
Practising yesterday it dawned on me that the further left you swing the more important it is to avoid having the face too open.

I was hitting gentle fades with the clubface closed to the target but open to the path and that one answer to balls that don't fade could be down just as much to not swinging far enough left as having the face too closed.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Hogan1953 said:
Would the appropriate amount of fwd lean for different clubs be that which is built into the design of the club itself with the grip end at varying degrees ahead of the clubface? This would suggest that with the driver the hands are virtually in line with the head at impact but with the sand wedge are clearly ahead.
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A complete fabrication, perpetrated by those with a "horse in the race."

Golf clubs are built with loft based on ZERO lean, assuming some.
 
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pecky987

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mrodock said:
What are the implications of shaft lean on the D-plane?
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usually, the more forward leaning the shaft, the more down-and-out the clubhead is travelling through the impact interval.

the further back from low point impact is the further the true path of the clubhead is actually inside out
 
mrodock

mrodock

New
pecky987 said:
usually, the more forward leaning the shaft, the more down-and-out the clubhead is travelling through the impact interval.

the further back from low point impact is the further the true path of the clubhead is actually inside out
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Not sure I agree . . . you can have shaft lean and not swing right . . . . also there are implications with the height of the handle too . . .
 
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pecky987

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mrodock said:
Not sure I agree . . . you can have shaft lean and not swing right . . . . also there are implications with the height of the handle too . . .
Click to expand...

ok here we go...

golfing machine shows how impact is downward and OUTWARD.

outward=inside-out

the further before low point impact is, the more outward the clubhead is travelling through the impact interval.

so if you hit down very hard and take a biiiiig divot (i.e hit ball well before low point) then the club is travelling substantially outward through impact. this motion through impactis what we are calling the TRUE PATH. this is totally seperate from the plane line.

since the impact interval is so small, and path the club makes through this interval is basically a straight line (even though the club makes an arc). therefore the TRUE PATH of the clubhead is the direction of this straight line.

hope i explained this clearly. if not im sure someone will tell me ;)
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
pecky987 said:
ok here we go...

golfing machine shows how impact is downward and OUTWARD.

outward=inside-out

the further before low point impact is, the more outward the clubhead is travelling through the impact interval.

so if you hit down very hard and take a biiiiig divot (i.e hit ball well before low point) then the club is travelling substantially outward through impact. this motion through impactis what we are calling the TRUE PATH. this is totally seperate from the plane line.

since the impact interval is so small, and path the club makes through this interval is basically a straight line (even though the club makes an arc). therefore the TRUE PATH of the clubhead is the direction of this straight line.

hope i explained this clearly. if not im sure someone will tell me ;)
Click to expand...


This is a very good post, however for a simple example search back a couple pages and read my post on how i used the D-plane to cure my wedge from 80 yards that went dead left of the green with a very on plane swing.
 
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