D-plane

[mrodock]

ok here we go...

golfing machine shows how impact is downward and OUTWARD.

outward=inside-out

the further before low point impact is, the more outward the clubhead is travelling through the impact interval.

so if you hit down very hard and take a biiiiig divot (i.e hit ball well before low point) then the club is travelling substantially outward through impact. this motion through impactis what we are calling the TRUE PATH. this is totally seperate from the plane line.

since the impact interval is so small, and path the club makes through this interval is basically a straight line (even though the club makes an arc). therefore the TRUE PATH of the clubhead is the direction of this straight line.

hope i explained this clearly. if not im sure someone will tell me

With you totally on that . . . But what about somebody like Craig Parry? Or a pull cutter? Is that still down out and forward?

 

[mrodock]

Played this weekend, tried to hit a low wedge by putting it back in my stance pulled it left with an on plane swing; didn't "hold it off" through impact.

THUS

D-plane says more forward lean equates to a more inside out ball position which made the ball take off more left that i had anticipated. Dropped another ball and move the ball position up and right at the flag.

Jim . . . As suggested I read your post above. Thanks . . . quick question . . . could you have left the ball position the same and opened the face with the same amout of lean and got a similar result?

Just trying to understand how this d-plane works.

thanks.

 

[lookingtolearn]

Jim . . . As suggested I read your post above. Thanks . . . quick question . . . could you have left the ball position the same and opened the face with the same amout of lean and got a similar result?

Just trying to understand how this d-plane works.

thanks.

He could have, but he would have had to aim more left to compensate.

 

[knob333]

ok here we go...

golfing machine shows how impact is downward and OUTWARD.

outward=inside-out

the further before low point impact is, the more outward the clubhead is travelling through the impact interval.

so if you hit down very hard and take a biiiiig divot (i.e hit ball well before low point) then the club is travelling substantially outward through impact. this motion through impactis what we are calling the TRUE PATH. this is totally seperate from the plane line.

since the impact interval is so small, and path the club makes through this interval is basically a straight line (even though the club makes an arc). therefore the TRUE PATH of the clubhead is the direction of this straight line.

hope i explained this clearly. if not im sure someone will tell me

At the risk of stating something totally obvious and also at the risk of being out to lunch (and try not to hate on me if I am ) since the true flight of the ball stays on an extension of the D-plane, a de-lofted face (due to more forward shaft lean) will yield a flatter plane than a D-plane created from a face with greater loft (due to less severe shaft lean - and all other things equal). The flatter D-plane means the ball curves more.

This is in addition to the effect of the mismatch between face orientation and true path .

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

Played this weekend, tried to hit a low wedge by putting it back in my stance pulled it left with an on plane swing; didn't "hold it off" through impact.

THUS

D-plane says more forward lean equates to a more inside out ball position which made the ball take off more left that i had anticipated. Dropped another ball and move the ball position up and right at the flag.

Jim,

Just trying to figure out how this works. With the ball back, the path is more in to out and the face although open to the target is more closed relative to the path and so the ball goes left. Move the ball up, the path is less into out so the face is potentially less closed relative to the path, ball goes straight(er). Appreciate any feedback

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

A complete fabrication, perpetrated by those with a "horse in the race."

Golf clubs are built with loft based on ZERO lean, assuming some.

Thanks. So, is there a difference in the amount of fwd lean needed to hit each different club straight?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim . . . As suggested I read your post above. Thanks . . . quick question . . . could you have left the ball position the same and opened the face with the same amout of lean and got a similar result?

Just trying to understand how this d-plane works.

thanks.

Yes, OR i could just aim more left and keep the face as is.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

He could have, but he would have had to aim more left to compensate.

Then it would have went RIGHT of the flag. If i am artificially opening the face at address it is creating a similar function of simply opening my plane line. If you combined both, it would go right of target

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim,

Just trying to figure out how this works. With the ball back, the path is more in to out and the face although open to the target is more closed relative to the path and so the ball goes left. Move the ball up, the path is less into out so the face is potentially less closed relative to the path, ball goes straight(er). Appreciate any feedback

You got it.

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

You got it.

Thanks for that confirmation.

So if I've got this straight, as a rule the more forward lean there is, the more face closes relative to the path than it would do with less?

 

[lookingtolearn]

Then it would have went RIGHT of the flag. If i am artificially opening the face at address it is creating a similar function of simply opening my plane line. If you combined both, it would go right of target

I thought he was talking about the face being more open when it hit the ball.

 

[lookingtolearn]

Nevermind, I think I get what you're saying.

I was thinking the face would be open enough to be square to the "too inside-out" path, which would go straight but right, and need a more leftward aim.

But instead I believe your talking about opening the face just enough so that it works the current path. It would still be closed to the path, but not enough that it would end up left of the target.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Thanks. So, is there a difference in the amount of fwd lean needed to hit each different club straight?

No.

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

So, how would you recommend playing a punch-shot given this information?

 

[pecky987]

So, how would you recommend playing a punch-shot given this information?

i have a friend who says he tries to keep the face open through impact when hitting a punch. cos he knows there a likely chance the ball can go left. just through instinct

 

[knob333]

Bumping my post

At the risk of stating something totally obvious and also at the risk of being out to lunch (and try not to hate on me if I am ) since the true flight of the ball stays on an extension of the D-plane, a de-lofted face (due to more forward shaft lean) will yield a flatter plane than a D-plane created from a face with greater loft (due to less severe shaft lean - and all other things equal). The flatter D-plane means the ball curves more.

This is in addition to the effect of the mismatch between face orientation and true path .

Anyone answer this ? Mandrin ? Also, does the ball flight always remain on the wedge during its flight or can it curve off the "slice of pizza". I ask this because I saw in an earlier D plane thread a drawing with arrows indicating a curving (away from the true path) right off the plane which I thought could be misinterpreted.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The only reason the ball "curved off the face" of the plane I drew in the Snead/Augusta mock-up, as because I didn't draw the plane big enough.

If you have very little loft and a level-ish strike, the D-Plane would be very horizontal to the ground.

Remember!

The ball starts and curves on the D-PLane UNTIL lift and gravity effect the ball.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

i have a friend who says he tries to keep the face open through impact when hitting a punch. cos he knows there a likely chance the ball can go left. just through instinct

I highly doubt that, most players "figure out" they have to hold it open because history tells them it has gone left on them. They don't know why (i didn't even until this year) but i knew i either had to aim further left (open stance) or hold it off through impact.

Better players figure this out through practice and playing.

 

[thefuture37]

I highly doubt that, most players "figure out" they have to hold it open because history tells them it has gone left on them. They don't know why (i didn't even until this year) but i knew i either had to aim further left (open stance) or hold it off through impact.

Better players figure this out through practice and playing.

why does it matter if you know "why"(unless you are a teacher) if people figure it out through practice anyways? good players could hit all the shots before anyone had ever heard of the d plane. trial and error has been around forever.

 

[strataboy-Gary Ho]

why does it matter if you know "why"(unless you are a teacher) if people figure it out through practice anyways? good players could hit all the shots before anyone had ever heard of the d plane. trial and error has been around forever.

The point is that most teachers dont know..... i guess some ppl like to know what kind of meds their doctors are giving them when they're sick and maybe why... but thats just me....

Maybe some ppl like to see doctors who prescribe meds based on trial and error? Your heart is hurting.... maybe some Advil will help