EDZ's own version of 2-K
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"The thing I keep saying, and some keep ignoring, is that NOTHING I AM SAYING IS IN CONFLICT with TGM or with science. I believe Homer understood this, but got his perspective wrong by focusing on the 'moving' left shoulder."
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Copyright EdZ 2004 All Rights Reserved
Oh, Really?
"A wise man once said....
"In the Geometry of the Circle the only thing that is not a straight
line is the circumference. Everything else is straight, chords,
tangents, radius, diameter, plane. Etc. There must be a constant
center and a constant radius. The proper geometrical relationship of the circle to the line must be established to produce a workable
procedure for applying a circular force to a ball so as to produce the same reaction as that produced by a linear force."
and
"Always strike the ball before full extension of the lever assemblies.""
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Copyright EdZ 2004 All Rights Reserved
Oh, Really?
"A wise man once said....
"In the Geometry of the Circle the only thing that is not a straight
line is the circumference. Everything else is straight, chords,
tangents, radius, diameter, plane. Etc. There must be a constant
center and a constant radius. The proper geometrical relationship of the circle to the line must be established to produce a workable
procedure for applying a circular force to a ball so as to produce the same reaction as that produced by a linear force."
and
"Always strike the ball before full extension of the lever assemblies.""
Corky - can you picture a whip motion? Can you understand the string example I gave?
Yes or no? do you understand that if you wind a string around center, and then unwind it, you would have a 'whip' motion. That the strings length DEFINES the circle's radius, even though it doesn't say fully extended? That such a circle always HAS the same radius, even when the string is wound? The definition of that circle doesn't get smaller, but the string is INSIDE it. The radius of that circle doesn't change, it is still defined by the length of the string, however it is only SEEN when the string is fully extended.
Before you say anything else about my views, do you REALLY understand this concept?
Yes or no? do you understand that if you wind a string around center, and then unwind it, you would have a 'whip' motion. That the strings length DEFINES the circle's radius, even though it doesn't say fully extended? That such a circle always HAS the same radius, even when the string is wound? The definition of that circle doesn't get smaller, but the string is INSIDE it. The radius of that circle doesn't change, it is still defined by the length of the string, however it is only SEEN when the string is fully extended.
Before you say anything else about my views, do you REALLY understand this concept?
Your 'winding and unwinding string' image demands a Rotated Shoulder Turn (in both directions); Zero Axis Tilt; and hence, Zero Weight Shift. This means Low Power.
So, however else you choose to think of it, what you have described in your image (as a substitute for Mechanics to produce a correct Feel) is a Rotated Shoulder Turn (10-16-C) with a Shiftless Hip Turn (10-14-C) and a Circle Path Delivery (10-23-E).
I would seriously advise playing downwind only.
I addressed this in my previous response, but to restate it again, you are swinging AROUND a point that is located ON your back, between the shoulders, at the base of your neck.
Therefore Brian's pics actually support this, for the most part (it is possible to move too much - see Strange). You can get 'behind' the ball, and turn 'through' the ball, keeping that spot 'on' your back in the same space. IMO Jack actually 'overdoes' keeping that spot still because he seems to have it 'in' his back/head, and not 'on' his back, between the shoulders. If you don't realize it is 'on' your back but think it is 'your head' you will reverse pivot.
As for power - you create LOTS of power. The power come from using your BODY. From sending that 'whip motion' THROUGH your body, from the ground up.
The downswing sequence, left foot, left knee, left hip, left side, left shoulder, left arm, hands. Think of it as 'the' whip motion, passing through you, down to the ball. Your body is moving your hands, your hands are moving the club. At impact you can support with your left AND right sides.
Those three points define a line, not a plane. (Are there any other reference points that determine whether the baseline of your plane is square, closed or open?)
Also, to clarify the angle of your line/plane above, it is drawn (in a down the line view) from the point on the spine between the shoulders through pp#1? This intersects the ground well inside the target line, correct? And the hands remain on this plane for the entire swing? Am I missing something?
quote:Originally posted by holenone
Your 'winding and unwinding string' image demands a Rotated Shoulder Turn (in both directions); Zero Axis Tilt; and hence, Zero Weight Shift. This means Low Power.
So, however else you choose to think of it, what you have described in your image (as a substitute for Mechanics to produce a correct Feel) is a Rotated Shoulder Turn (10-16-C) with a Shiftless Hip Turn (10-14-C) and a Circle Path Delivery (10-23-E).
I would seriously advise playing downwind only.
No Lynn, you do not understand my position at all.
Tell you what njmp - when someone proves to me that they understand what I am saying, I'll stop. Given Lynn's last response, it is clear he doesn't understand it yet.
I will say AGAIN - nothing I am saying is in conflict with TGM or the positions Homer described. Let's start with that. If you assume, as Lynn did, that it is in conflict, stop there - ask me a question, and I will clarify.
Ed, refer to the title of this topic. Its your very own! It was your own six months ago and it is today. The decent thing to do is accept that it is still, " EDZ's Own Version of 2-K" and stop trying to shove it down everybody's throat, In light of the fact that you have not been able to rally any support on this over three different forums. It would seem like the humane thing to do, is let it die a quiet death. There are so many legitimate topics to tackle.
You have failed to sway anyone, anywhere. I will not perpetuate your fantasy anymore as I know it is not what the masses at this forum desire. You had your opportunity, now think of every person on this board before your self interests and let it go!
You have failed to sway anyone, anywhere. I will not perpetuate your fantasy anymore as I know it is not what the masses at this forum desire. You had your opportunity, now think of every person on this board before your self interests and let it go!
Let's go back to the string example and relate it to something many of you do understand - rope swinging.
In rope swinging per current TGM, you swing a rope so that it is straight - verticle - at impact.
Now, use a LONGER rope, and get the rope straight AT BOTH ARMS STRAIGHT - which means you 'drag' the rope along the ground through 'impact' - why - because full extension is at both arms straight and true low point is UNDER the ground.
Straighten the rope perpendicular to your shoulder line PAST impact.
That ensures you will always have 'lag', you position the 'circle' so that the rope would drag on the ground, and fully straighten, perpendicular to the shoulders, at both arms straight.
Lynn - does this help you see where I am going with the correction to 2K?
In rope swinging per current TGM, you swing a rope so that it is straight - verticle - at impact.
Now, use a LONGER rope, and get the rope straight AT BOTH ARMS STRAIGHT - which means you 'drag' the rope along the ground through 'impact' - why - because full extension is at both arms straight and true low point is UNDER the ground.
Straighten the rope perpendicular to your shoulder line PAST impact.
That ensures you will always have 'lag', you position the 'circle' so that the rope would drag on the ground, and fully straighten, perpendicular to the shoulders, at both arms straight.
Lynn - does this help you see where I am going with the correction to 2K?
"Tell you what njmp - when someone proves to me that they understand what I am saying, I'll stop."
"No Lynn, you do not understand my position at all."
Do you see a trend here ,Ed?
Ed, You can't make people understand you. That is earned,based on your arguments. Your's don't support your point!
Don't insult the forum by saying everyone is wrong except you and don't disrespect them, when everybody would prefer to move on.
Please, Let it go!
"No Lynn, you do not understand my position at all."
Do you see a trend here ,Ed?
Ed, You can't make people understand you. That is earned,based on your arguments. Your's don't support your point!
Don't insult the forum by saying everyone is wrong except you and don't disrespect them, when everybody would prefer to move on.
Please, Let it go!
I have read past references to 'continuous Lag' in your circle theory. With my attention diverted to other areas of your theory, I didn't do my homework on this one. So, I really don't know how you apply this concept to an actual Golf Stroke.
That said, what you have described above is Accumulator Lag -- as opposed to Pivot Lag or Clubhead Lag -- the out-of-line condition of the Flail's Swingle and Handle. And this Loaded Accumulated Power must be Released in order to convert its potential energy (energy of position) into kinetic energy (energy of motion).
Similarly, with Pivot Lag, the Lagging Components of the Pivot Train must gradually overtake the Leading Components. This is the Sequenced Overtaking of the multiple Pivot 'Centers,' i.e., the Feet, Knees, Hips and Shoulders (6-C-0 and 6-M-1).
Only the Clubhead Lag -- the inertia of the orbiting Clubhead as sensed through the #3 Pressure Point -- properly could be considered a 'continuous Lag around the Circle.' That is because, unlike its two counterparts, only the Clubhead Lag has no Release Point (6-C-2-A). But...
This is not the Lag of the trailing Flail Swingle.
Turfspanker
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Ed,
You have defined a swing circle based on a radius length at both arms straight for the primary and secondary levers. This large circumference is touched by the clubhead at one point in the swing. The both arms straight condition.
The plane is established by the underside of both forearms in the address position. The hands trace that plane back and down to both arms straight. The forearms attempt to stay level in the backswing.
The center of the swing is the back of the neck and the primary lever or handle of the swingle is between the back of the neck and pressure point 1 where the hands meet.
Thoughout the swing the hands attempt to keep their basic relationship with the center of the swing, even though the string is not tight until both arms straight. But it is an invisible string with properties that allow elasticity.
The clubshaft does not line up with the left arm (flat left wrist)at both arms straight, rather it lines up in a straight line with the center of the swing.
Lag is maintained from start down (on plane, inside the circle but not touching the edge of the circle) to both arms straight which is the release of all accumulators.
The circle low point is slightly below and in front of the ball location.
I don't see much value in the above, but if the image helps a beginner...great!
(And I prefer my right forearm to point to the plane line at impact).
Thanks,
Spanker
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