Hand Path in Transition by Brian Manzella & Art's Dynamic Balance Thoughts

Status
Not open for further replies.

art

New
Hello Art,

Would setting up with a closed stance help to achieve some of the benefit of a pre-turn? For me closing a bit provides much more leverage on the downswing.

Dear drewyallop,

Setting up with a closed stance, probably affects your foot positions, your pelvis/hips and your shoulder positions too. So in actuality, you are facing in a different, more 'closed' direction. When you go to hit the ball, however, all your previous swing experiences will 'guide' you to want the activity to parallel the target line and therefore, your entire body, not just your lower body has changed the characteristics that control your dynamic balance and stability margin.

For a limited amount of 'total body' set up in a closed position, you will realize a small and useful amount of increased dynamic stability, but IMO, very quickly, you will be seriously moving towards an over the top condition for the upper body trying to maintain the swing paths you have been used to. Also, quite clearly, since the rotating upper body possesses significantly more asymmetries (rotating around the non central spine axis), weighs more, is going faster than the lower body, it can/will generate much more dynamic imbalance that the lower body will not be able to handle.

So, I would suggest trying a compromise of YOUR slightly closed stance, and a stability-enhancing further SLIGHTLY closed right hip, as I have detailed in other posts, to JUST TAKE UP THE SLACK IN THE PELVIS ONLY, rotationally, in a clockwise direction, as a new set-up starting position.

I am not a golf instructor, and assume that what you mean by "much more leverage on the downswing" is your ability to get more club head speed/distance, or at least 'feel' that you are in a better position to develop more club head speed/distance. IMO, this compromise of using both your slightly closed body position, and the additional set-up change of a slightly FURTHER closed pelvis, while maybe a bit uncomfortable at first, will develop even more 'leverage'.

Finally, I would suggest you try different combinations of each of these modifications, and IMO, there will be one that MAXIMIZES the leverage you want. This is based on my belief, based on tests with 'Awareness Instructions' that each of our unique bodies have the capability to self-optimize, if we let them.
 

Dariusz J.

New member
Dear Dariusz J.,

I have read many of your posts since becoming interested in exchanging science-based ideas with experts in the area like you and mandrin.

Before I respond to him, I have a favor to ask of you. That is to enlighten me on your very firm statement that "Having hips closed to feet at address is totally useless biokinetically".

I do not agree with that conclusion AT ALL, and sincerely want to learn more from the depth of your experiences and knowledge. Further, since it is the foundation of my hypotheses regarding dynamic balance and stability of the lower body during the golf swing, your response is critical to me.

Sincerely,
art

Art,
It is not a rocket science, it is biokinetics. Secondly, I am not an expert, I am just an amateur theorist (who sacrificed maybe too much time to learn this and that). Let me ask two questions before I answer your question fully:
- have you read something on the diagonal stance ? I ask since you said you sport of know what is my work about;
- have you observed carefully what best ballstrikers did ? If yes, find me one example of a great ballstriker with closed hips at address.

Cheers
 
Dear drewyallop,

Setting up with a closed stance, probably affects your foot positions, your pelvis/hips and your shoulder positions too. So in actuality, you are facing in a different, more 'closed' direction. When you go to hit the ball, however, all your previous swing experiences will 'guide' you to want the activity to parallel the target line and therefore, your entire body, not just your lower body has changed the characteristics that control your dynamic balance and stability margin.

For a limited amount of 'total body' set up in a closed position, you will realize a small and useful amount of increased dynamic stability, but IMO, very quickly, you will be seriously moving towards an over the top condition for the upper body trying to maintain the swing paths you have been used to. Also, quite clearly, since the rotating upper body possesses significantly more asymmetries (rotating around the non central spine axis), weighs more, is going faster than the lower body, it can/will generate much more dynamic imbalance that the lower body will not be able to handle.

So, I would suggest trying a compromise of YOUR slightly closed stance, and a stability-enhancing further SLIGHTLY closed right hip, as I have detailed in other posts, to JUST TAKE UP THE SLACK IN THE PELVIS ONLY, rotationally, in a clockwise direction, as a new set-up starting position.

I am not a golf instructor, and assume that what you mean by "much more leverage on the downswing" is your ability to get more club head speed/distance, or at least 'feel' that you are in a better position to develop more club head speed/distance. IMO, this compromise of using both your slightly closed body position, and the additional set-up change of a slightly FURTHER closed pelvis, while maybe a bit uncomfortable at first, will develop even more 'leverage'.

Finally, I would suggest you try different combinations of each of these modifications, and IMO, there will be one that MAXIMIZES the leverage you want. This is based on my belief, based on tests with 'Awareness Instructions' that each of our unique bodies have the capability to self-optimize, if we let them.

Thank you Art. I will give it a try.

A couple of observations. The more closed stance had helped to overcome a tendency to "popout" (hands moving towards the target line) both on the backswing and downswing. The backswing feels less restricted and more relaxed.
 

art

New
Art,
It is not a rocket science, it is biokinetics. Secondly, I am not an expert, I am just an amateur theorist (who sacrificed maybe too much time to learn this and that). Let me ask two questions before I answer your question fully:
- have you read something on the diagonal stance ? I ask since you said you sport of know what is my work about;
- have you observed carefully what best ballstrikers did ? If yes, find me one example of a great ballstriker with closed hips at address.

Cheers

Dear Dariusz,

Thanks for the timely and meaningful reply, and your noting that you were "just an amateur theorist...". As I have admitted openly on this site, I also am a 'newbie/wannabe golf scientist, and my work, as reviewed by 'real' scientists, still has me in the 'hypotheses-only' category.

Also thanks for introducing me to the terms 'bio-kinetics', and 'diagonal stance'. I have spent a few hours looking into these areas and while I did not previously relate to the specific terminology, was very acquainted with their meaning and use, and of course to the details of Hogans approach to foot placement for the various clubs.

I also spent quite a bit of very useful time on your web site, and conclude that we are in agreement in many areas, so maybe for the time being, we can try to reach agreement on the potential benefits of looking beyond just the characteristics of Hogans swing in seeking broader aspects of 'golf truth' for ALL golfers using proven scientific methods.

So, with Brian's passion, and POCKETBOOK, I have been able to very closely benefit from the scientists he has contacted/hired, and further my understanding by reviewing their documented research in many areas affecting the golf swing. If you are interested, I will post a list of references I have used in trying to understand what I believe to be CRUCIAL areas of EVERY BODIES golf swing. not just Hogan, and the other great golfers that have been video-analyzed, ad nausea.

From what I have learned from your web site, you have created a 'theory' based on what we would in the scientific community call 'reverse engineering'. You are in good company though, because virtually all golf teachers I have known and/or read about have to varying degrees used this type of single (Ben Hogan), or multiple tour golfer video swing analysis approach to develop their 'theory's' and teaching methods.

Unfortunately, while some very valid TRENDS can be discovered this way, IMO the uniqueness of every individual golfer, necessitates a CUSTOMIZED approach to determine the elements that need to be improved for each golfer to repeatedly enjoy and reach their best swing potential.

That is my goal, Darisuz, to define and develop the BOTTOMS UP processes and measurement devices and analyses that will be able to provide the golfing community a disciplined, science-based way to determine each golfers unique changes necessary.

While this may sound 'lofty', especially coming from only a retired 'rocket scientist', I can promise you, that with all the scientific talent contributing to, or just monitoring this Manzella site, 2012 will be a defining year for a disciplined, documented, and best yet, verified and tested approach(s), to help determine some of the changes necessary for ALL golfers to improve.

Finally to address your last point, are there any tour golfers using the first phase of this 'lower body dynamic stability enhancement' set up change, I am indebted to "spmurph" who posted on the "Pre-turned hip" blog, a video of Nich Watney's drive on the 18 th tee at Riviera last month. IMO, since this is such a minimum but efficient change, as the word gets out, you will be seeing many more professional golfers looking like this soon.

However, as I said earlier, every golfer has their unique way to satisfy the crucial dynamic aspects affecting their swing. My findings are that TEMPO/RHYTHM, and the dynamic balance and stability of various parts of the unique golfers body, will all be slightly different, so expect to continue to see the many other ways the professional develop lower body dynamic stability, etc..

Hope our dialog continues.
C
 

Dariusz J.

New member
Dear Dariusz,

Thanks for the timely and meaningful reply, and your noting that you were "just an amateur theorist...". As I have admitted openly on this site, I also am a 'newbie/wannabe golf scientist, and my work, as reviewed by 'real' scientists, still has me in the 'hypotheses-only' category.

Art, while I certainly appreciate your style of writing -- please do not exaggerate. I am nobody in golf and I am not ashamed to admit it openly. My work is purely my hobby, I am just an amateur high single digit HCper.


Also thanks for introducing me to the terms 'bio-kinetics', and 'diagonal stance'. I have spent a few hours looking into these areas and while I did not previously relate to the specific terminology, was very acquainted with their meaning and use, and of course to the details of Hogans approach to foot placement for the various clubs.

The intention is setting joints the way it is useful both for backswing as well as for downswing. That's why Hogan's diagonal stance is pure genial thing, who knows, maybe the most important thing ever. The rear foot is being settled the way it helps to automate the transition while the lead one to support the vertical axis of downswing rotation the best possible way, i.e. having the mass vector going down through the ankle joint or ensure continuous rotation during the impact zone.
Think about backswing in the coronal plane terms and downswing in the sagittal plane terms.

I also spent quite a bit of very useful time on your web site, and conclude that we are in agreement in many areas, so maybe for the time being, we can try to reach agreement on the potential benefits of looking beyond just the characteristics of Hogans swing in seeking broader aspects of 'golf truth' for ALL golfers using proven scientific methods.

Thank you. I am at your disposal for discussions, of course within my realm of understanding.

So, with Brian's passion, and POCKETBOOK, I have been able to very closely benefit from the scientists he has contacted/hired, and further my understanding by reviewing their documented research in many areas affecting the golf swing. If you are interested, I will post a list of references I have used in trying to understand what I believe to be CRUCIAL areas of EVERY BODIES golf swing. not just Hogan, and the other great golfers that have been video-analyzed, ad nausea.

Very well --as the very Hogan said -- no matter how people may differ anatomically, the mechanics are the same, assuming no physical deformity. Very small number of people understand the above correctly.

From what I have learned from your web site, you have created a 'theory' based on what we would in the scientific community call 'reverse engineering'. You are in good company though, because virtually all golf teachers I have known and/or read about have to varying degrees used this type of single (Ben Hogan), or multiple tour golfer video swing analysis approach to develop their 'theory's' and teaching methods.

Great to hear, but I am neither aspiring to be a teacher, nor have possibilities to move greatly in microscale. I am leaving the microscale instruction to professionals.

Unfortunately, while some very valid TRENDS can be discovered this way, IMO the uniqueness of every individual golfer, necessitates a CUSTOMIZED approach to determine the elements that need to be improved for each golfer to repeatedly enjoy and reach their best swing potential.
That is my goal, Darisuz, to define and develop the BOTTOMS UP processes and measurement devices and analyses that will be able to provide the golfing community a disciplined, science-based way to determine each golfers unique changes necessary.

All the best in your adventure, Art. I am enjoying many threads that concerns microscale. Moreover, next year I'd prolly be asking questions to such guys like you, Brian or Brian's instructors when my 3-year experiment ends. Until now, I am not interested in discussing microscale teachings.

Finally to address your last point, are there any tour golfers using the first phase of this 'lower body dynamic stability enhancement' set up change, I am indebted to "spmurph" who posted on the "Pre-turned hip" blog, a video of Nich Watney's drive on the 18 th tee at Riviera last month. IMO, since this is such a minimum but efficient change, as the word gets out, you will be seeing many more professional golfers looking like this soon.

No, no. I meant REAL great ballstrikers in history of the game. Certainly not anyone of Watney's range. You must know that I am weird enough to look at Hogans Venturis Knudsons Normans Trevinos, etc. not at current players who play not real golf -- that golf based on rewarding control and accuracy but rather on rewarding distance.

I also do hope our discussion continues and looking forward to learn new approach to the golf swing.

Cheers
 
Art,

Have you noticed that when you "look down your left cheek", w a little turn of the head (as Nicklaus and others do/did), it has the effect of turning the hips, shoulders, and overall body, as well?

I wonder as well if there is a relation to a mid-body hands position (and I mean truly mid-body, not noticeably forward), along w a bending of the left wrist at address. (though Nicklaus did neither- at least not much, or normally in his golf) I'm not into this idea of over-doing (the strength of- or recommending it all the time) a left chest to left arm connection, but it seems that when you "kink" (bend) in the left wrist at address it moves the rest of the left arm in closer to the body. And may move the body.

Anyway, it looks like all these things might be related. Or at least I wonder.

Reconsidering the "pre-turn" idea. But "how" is a question too, and I don't know that.
 
Last edited:
Art,

Thank you for your nuggets of wisdom. I have taken your inputs and tried to implement them at the range yesterday. Wow. Words will not suffice, so let me just say wow.

Increased distance and accuracy. Excellent trajectory. Need I say more? How about my driver is now more ACCURATE now than my mid-long irons ever were before this. I am amazed how the dispersion has been tightened.

Only one exception, from the top of my backswing, I could not "just do it" and go at the ball with abandon. I found a carefully nurtured tempo was still a prerequisite or else my shoulder complexes/arms/hands will outrace my lower body. What am I missing? Possibly I am probably not tightening something that should be tightened in my pivot I suspect. But apart from that, it was like a machine in its repeatability.

My deepest gratitude to you and to Brian Manzella who have created this eco system of valuable contributors breaking new ground with science and analysis and are willing to share. Art, I await your published work eagerly. Count me a newfound follower.

My sincere regards and appreciation.
 

art

New
Art,

Have you noticed that when you "look down your left cheek", w a little turn of the head (as Nicklaus and others do/did), it has the effect of turning the hips, shoulders, and overall body, as well?

I wonder as well if there is a relation to a mid-body hands position (and I mean truly mid-body, not noticeably forward), along w a bending of the left wrist at address. (though Nicklaus did neither- at least not much, or normally in his golf) I'm not into this idea of over-doing (the strength of- or recommending it all the time) a left chest to left arm connection, but it seems that when you "kink" (bend) in the left wrist at address it moves the rest of the left arm in closer to the body. And may move the body.

Anyway, it looks like all these things might be related. Or at least I wonder.

Reconsidering the "pre-turn" idea. But "how" is a question too, and I don't know that.

Dear birdie_man,

When Brian was preparing for the 'Anti Summit II, I asked if an expert on body anatomy could be added to the 6 elite scientists that were already booked ; after all asking didn't cost ME anything. Unfortunately, I was too late, and in fact couldn't even attend the 2 day meeting. BUT, I did get the videos, and have watched them twice, to realize how very fortunate we ALL are to be the benefactors of such high quality information.

While the subject you bring up wasn't addressed directly, I can tell you from my experiences that there certainly are body position REACTIONS (in the opposite directions) to probably all static and dynamic golf-related activities.

One in particular of great interest to me is the right hips desire to rotate clockwise, when there is even just a slight counter clockwise move by the left arm, for instance in the final set-up and early back swing. IMO, this move/reaction also adds dynamic stability to the lower body.

SO PLEASE, YOU ANATOMICALLY TRAINED READERS OF THESE BLOGS SEEKING GOLF TRUTH, WEIGH IN HERE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL.
 

art

New
Art,

Thank you for your nuggets of wisdom. I have taken your inputs and tried to implement them at the range yesterday. Wow. Words will not suffice, so let me just say wow.

Increased distance and accuracy. Excellent trajectory. Need I say more? How about my driver is now more ACCURATE now than my mid-long irons ever were before this. I am amazed how the dispersion has been tightened.

Only one exception, from the top of my backswing, I could not "just do it" and go at the ball with abandon. I found a carefully nurtured tempo was still a prerequisite or else my shoulder complexes/arms/hands will outrace my lower body. What am I missing? Possibly I am probably not tightening something that should be tightened in my pivot I suspect. But apart from that, it was like a machine in its repeatability.

My deepest gratitude to you and to Brian Manzella who have created this eco system of valuable contributors breaking new ground with science and analysis and are willing to share. Art, I await your published work eagerly. Count me a newfound follower.

My sincere regards and appreciation.



Dear dear Vortex,

Wow, what a wonderful response, thank you.

As for the "just do it", I had 2 reasons for this apparent simplification; (1) I wanted to make sure, there was only swing thought possible in the short time available, and (2) I wanted to be sure there was every possibility for your 'standard' swing would follow, so that only ONE thing was likely to be changing, ie., the right hip at set-up..

You, frankly made it better, and your attention to consistent, and personal TEMPO, as your TOP priority item (even before lower body dynamic balance and stability control), is actually the sequence I believe will accelerate the improvement of most golfers. This is based on my understanding of Dr. Robert Grobers exceptional work regarding the dynamic and resonant characteristics of the body during the golf swing.

Without ANY doubt, I believe, and already have enough supporting test results to say without reservation that when a golfer deviates in any way from their natural resonant swing at ANY energy level, the resultant shot will INCREASE in error content. Again, noted in a previous posting, the 'Awareness Instruction" is an incredibly reliable and simple method, to note, after the swing, if the completed swing was equal to, slower or faster than your natural/resonant swing tempo at the same energy level. You should be able to correlate the 'best' shots with your normal resonant TEMPO/RHYTHM.

Thanks for such good news, from so far away.
 
S

SteveT

Guest
Arturo:

In the context of Gallwey's "Awareness Mode (and Skills)" for adults specifically, do you believe the golf swing is best taught by swinging a golf club?

My concern is attempting to learn the complexities of the golfswing just swinging a somewhat lightweight golf club that does nothing much to overstress and train the human body, nor feed forward the necessary and correct skills to provide the sought after feedback feel. Years of repetitive swinging of a lightweight object doesn't really "groove" neuro-muscular pathways efficiently, so I've found.

I have both of Gallwey's books -- The Inner Game of Tennis/Golf -- and both essentially promote the concept of "mind over matter". Nothing on technique, only psychology. Since I applied his tennis book to my athletic tennis game, all I did was practice a lot and then reinforced it with competition and confidence. Golf doesn't lend itself to external competition in a dynamic setting, it's sort of 'static'... stand and swing the club. And yet, most all golf swings are "home-made"...!!!

I exclude children from the learning of golf, and tennis, because children just grab a racket and swing away with abandon until they get to the point of deciding it's futile.. and then hopefully you can catch them willing to accept gentle encouraging instruction. If not, they just say "It's no fun!" and instinctively reject it. IOW, children want to learn the "whole gestalt" without the pain of practice... unless their buddy does it and they do it together. Children are not ... contaminated humans, yet...;)
 

art

New
Arturo:

In the context of Gallwey's "Awareness Mode (and Skills)" for adults specifically, do you believe the golf swing is best taught by swinging a golf club?

My concern is attempting to learn the complexities of the golfswing just swinging a somewhat lightweight golf club that does nothing much to overstress and train the human body, nor feed forward the necessary and correct skills to provide the sought after feedback feel. Years of repetitive swinging of a lightweight object doesn't really "groove" neuro-muscular pathways efficiently, so I've found.

I have both of Gallwey's books -- The Inner Game of Tennis/Golf -- and both essentially promote the concept of "mind over matter". Nothing on technique, only psychology. Since I applied his tennis book to my athletic tennis game, all I did was practice a lot and then reinforced it with competition and confidence. Golf doesn't lend itself to external competition in a dynamic setting, it's sort of 'static'... stand and swing the club. And yet, most all golf swings are "home-made"...!!!

I exclude children from the learning of golf, and tennis, because children just grab a racket and swing away with abandon until they get to the point of deciding it's futile.. and then hopefully you can catch them willing to accept gentle encouraging instruction. If not, they just say "It's no fun!" and instinctively reject it. IOW, children want to learn the "whole gestalt" without the pain of practice... unless their buddy does it and they do it together. Children are not ... contaminated humans, yet...;)

Dear SteveT,

Nice to hear from you again, and 'feel' we have made good and sincere progress communicating from the depth of your question, and some of the details, ie., "feed forward, awareness, feedback feel".

Unfortunately, my efforts in 'learning and training' are really hypotheses-only at this time, since I have almost NO formal education and very little experience in the sciences necessary to understand these two areas.

However, believing FULLY that inconsistent TEMPO/RHYTHM, and/or dynamic unbalances are responsible for ALL swing faults, I have engaged with several learned sports scientists to open up the subject/thinking of "how long does it take to IMPROVE to be a golfer with varying degrees of capability.

It's easy to see how answers to YOUR questions would play a significant role in this broader 'macro' question, so therein lies my sincere interest, too.

IMO, or even more diluted, what I think, based on these last 5 years of experiences with 50-100 golfers, and focused on HOW AND HOW LONG TO IMPROVE, I do have some very strong indications/trends. In partial answer to your questions, for the LEARNING, I have ALWAYS used just the golf club and IMO it is intuitive, and often demonstrated professionally, that other devices could, should and certainly ARE being used for training.

So in learning, Steve, what I have found (but in pure scientific terms, still MY hypothesis), for ALL golfers except children and other real beginners, is as indicated above, their ability to improve is TOTALLY controlled by their capability to create and repeat consistent TEMPO/RHYTHM, and to be sufficiently athletic to be able to swing in ways that allow increases of lower body, upper body and shoulder complex dynamic stability.

My apologies for being SO repetitive in almost ALL my posts, but my hypothetical OVERALL conclusion is that these areas ARE CRUCIAL for improvement to happen. The documented evidence that the 'average handicap' of ALL golfers has not changed significantly since inception IMO, is pure and sufficient evidence that something very significant has prevented this growth. To my satisfaction, the apparent absence of the importance, and therefor the lack of teaching golfers this as the first , top and ENABELING prioriyty, IMO is the sole reason for the universal lack of improvement.

So, back to the point regarding the opinion/studies of sports psychologists in helping break thru this barrier, so far I have made virtually NO progress. However, the evidence from the efforts before contributing to this blog, and the positive results indicated by those trying increased stability for the first time, are to me growing evidence that we are on to a significant potential break thru in HOW a golfer can again improve, and IMO very quickly when compared with historical evidence. What I am referring to is the often stated 10,000 hours etc. to develop an 'elite' habit.

My response to this , but in NO way agreed to by the few sports (learning) psychologists with whom I have discussed this, is simply, develop the FOUNDATIONS/CORNERSTONES of consistent TEMPO etc, etc, and then ALL the finer aspects of learning shot making/shaping will take FAR fewer than the 10,000 hours noted in most of the 'learning literature'.

As a demonstrated sub set of how long it takes to 'learn' to increase lower body dynamic stability, ask Brian, Billy McKinney, Jon Hardesty or Chris Como, all part of this team, and all with personal experience in this admittedly, but to me CRUCIAL area.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
It doesn't take long for a "right" idea to help a golfer.

No more than a few balls.

Developmental teaching is often about change for looks sake.
 
...

So in learning, Steve, what I have found (but in pure scientific terms, still MY hypothesis), for ALL golfers except children and other real beginners, is as indicated above, their ability to improve is TOTALLY controlled by their capability to create and repeat consistent TEMPO/RHYTHM, and to be sufficiently athletic to be able to swing in ways that allow increases of lower body, upper body and shoulder complex dynamic stability.

My apologies for being SO repetitive in almost ALL my posts, but my hypothetical OVERALL conclusion is that these areas ARE CRUCIAL for improvement to happen. The documented evidence that the 'average handicap' of ALL golfers has not changed significantly since inception IMO, is pure and sufficient evidence that something very significant has prevented this growth. To my satisfaction, the apparent absence of the importance, and therefor the lack of teaching golfers this as the first , top and ENABELING prioriyty, IMO is the sole reason for the universal lack of improvement.

So, back to the point regarding the opinion/studies of sports psychologists in helping break thru this barrier, so far I have made virtually NO progress. However, the evidence from the efforts before contributing to this blog, and the positive results indicated by those trying increased stability for the first time, are to me growing evidence that we are on to a significant potential break thru in HOW a golfer can again improve, and IMO very quickly when compared with historical evidence. What I am referring to is the often stated 10,000 hours etc. to develop an 'elite' habit.

My response to this , but in NO way agreed to by the few sports (learning) psychologists with whom I have discussed this, is simply, develop the FOUNDATIONS/CORNERSTONES of consistent TEMPO etc, etc, and then ALL the finer aspects of learning shot making/shaping will take FAR fewer than the 10,000 hours noted in most of the 'learning literature'.

As a demonstrated sub set of how long it takes to 'learn' to increase lower body dynamic stability, ask Brian, Billy McKinney, Jon Hardesty or Chris Como, all part of this team, and all with personal experience in this admittedly, but to me CRUCIAL area.

It doesn't take long for a "right" idea to help a golfer.

No more than a few balls.

Developmental teaching is often about change for looks sake.

I have been adopting the concepts discussed here in my last two range sessions and couple rounds of golf. At the range, I used no more than 200 balls each time, focusing on specific areas. Then I would bring it to 'production' at the course. The last range session was yesterday.

Today, I shot my first eagle. Par 4, index 4, 333m. For a 2-year player, this was huge, especially on a narrow, indexed par 4. The choked down driver shot was straight where I aimed it. About 115m (120m factoring in the back pin position) left. The easy 9 iron was a baby draw as planned, aiming slightly right as per D-plane. The ball never left the flight line I had in mind, tracking to the flag.

Dispersion is certainly significantly tighter now.

Admittedly, this is anecdotal, but I for one know my stats, FIR, GIR, number of putts, and total score, are all improving collectively. This is after being quite stagnant for the past circa 6 months. So my personal data suggests it's not a flash in the pan. I am starting to revisit my previous understanding of the '300-500 repetition to learn a new move and 3000-5000 repetition to correct an existing move' theory.

Art, Brian, and other valuable contributors here, I can't express my thanks sufficiently.
 

art

New
I have been adopting the concepts discussed here in my last two range sessions and couple rounds of golf. At the range, I used no more than 200 balls each time, focusing on specific areas. Then I would bring it to 'production' at the course. The last range session was yesterday.

Today, I shot my first eagle. Par 4, index 4, 333m. For a 2-year player, this was huge, especially on a narrow, indexed par 4. The choked down driver shot was straight where I aimed it. About 115m (120m factoring in the back pin position) left. The easy 9 iron was a baby draw as planned, aiming slightly right as per D-plane. The ball never left the flight line I had in mind, tracking to the flag.

Dispersion is certainly significantly tighter now.

Admittedly, this is anecdotal, but I for one know my stats, FIR, GIR, number of putts, and total score, are all improving collectively. This is after being quite stagnant for the past circa 6 months. So my personal data suggests it's not a flash in the pan. I am starting to revisit my previous understanding of the '300-500 repetition to learn a new move and 3000-5000 repetition to correct an existing move' theory.

Art, Brian, and other valuable contributors here, I can't express my thanks sufficiently.

Dear Vortex,

Thanks for the kind words, but more important to all of us your belief in, and then determination in trying out what is being suggested.

I took a look at your first class string of videos, and am curious if you have a consistent bias towards the ball going slightly left . If so, after pre-setting your right hip back at the end of the set-up ("Bumpy back"), you may want to try keeping your right hip back a little longer ("keep it back"). Y

You may recall from a few previous posts, I described the path of the lead shoulder during the downswing (up the shoulder swing plane), and when 'optimized' for each golfer, will 'time' the normal force, just prior to impact and maximize the 'parametric acceleration' contribution.

The results for you should be upper body/shoulders slightly more closed at impact, producing shot directions a little more to the right, and yes, even a little higher swing speed with the average dispersion about the same.

Anxious to hear how this goes for you, and again, thanks for the encouraging feedback.
 
Art,

Thank you for your suggestions. It's getting specific to my swing and a bit OT now, so you've got PM.

Thanks.
 
I don't get most of this stuff, nothing new there.

In Brian's videao, at the top of the swing or the top 1/3 of the swing, if you aren't supposed to pull the hands to the ball (left thigh), then where are you supposed to pull them?

Are you supposed to push them out and then pull the hands to the ball?

Is it like pulling an arrow from a quiver?

Is the "fiddle drill" dead?

Until Brian comes out with a "Confessions" vid and/or a NSA vid, I think I'm screwed. I bought "Ideas" and it's great, but I guess I am not there yet.

Thanks,
p
 
Let me try again. Between 6:35 and 7:05 in Brian's vid, he says, "Remember, you've got people at the top of ths swing trying to pull their hands at (to?) the ball" (he also draws an arrow from the hands at the top of the swing to the ball and/or the inside of the left thigh).
I think this is something I do...which I realize is incorrect.
My question is since pulling my hands at (to) the ball is incorrect, what am I supposed to do with my hands?
 
Dear Vortex,

Thanks for the kind words, but more important to all of us your belief in, and then determination in trying out what is being suggested.

I took a look at your first class string of videos, and am curious if you have a consistent bias towards the ball going slightly left . If so, after pre-setting your right hip back at the end of the set-up ("Bumpy back"), you may want to try keeping your right hip back a little longer ("keep it back"). Y

You may recall from a few previous posts, I described the path of the lead shoulder during the downswing (up the shoulder swing plane), and when 'optimized' for each golfer, will 'time' the normal force, just prior to impact and maximize the 'parametric acceleration' contribution.

The results for you should be upper body/shoulders slightly more closed at impact, producing shot directions a little more to the right, and yes, even a little higher swing speed with the average dispersion about the same.

Anxious to hear how this goes for you, and again, thanks for the encouraging feedback.

Art,

Pertaining to your comments I highlighted in red, here's my feedback.

Yes, ABSOLUTELY it worked. I've been struggling to put the latest tweaks in my swing into play in today's round of golf, until your words above came to mind.

The moment I consciously put the right hip back, and keep it back longer, everything I've been working on fell into place. Instead of pushing or snap hooking my wood, I began to draw it nicely.

And, as a bonus, I finish completely in balance, in a perfect, relaxed pose, instead of falling forward (to where the ball was) as usual. That indicates to move, the last addition was the last piece of the puzzle where my dynamic balance was concerned.

I am amazed how something seemingly so micro can have such a huge effect on my swing.

Once again, my thanks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top