Hands too far forward?

Status
Not open for further replies.
ppt3,

"Not sure what gets everybody's shorts in a knot when it comes to lag but like MizunoJoe's buddy there seem to be a whole lot of people who get their back up about the concept and the book. Too bad. Homer and Ben Doyle are truly great, generous people and with an open mind the book is a treasure trove."

I don't think everyone's shorts are in a knot because of lag. A few folks simply noted that most TGM'ers get their shorts in a knot whenever an alternative viewpoint is introduced. Again, my instructor is a GSED who has taught the likes of Charles Howell, but never has he told me to go read "the book" or "the book" reigns supreme. In fact, I have been told to not really worry about reading the book. When I object or question him for answers surrounding the "whys" of the golf swing, he never hides under the mantra of "it must be right because it is scientifically proven" or "geometry rules" or any of that jazz. We never really talk about lag either. We focus on power. Why, because lag is a byproduct of doing other things correctly. Execute the things necessary for a powerful swing and you usually end up with accuracy AND lag.

The fact is that the book may be a treasure trove and Doyle and Homer may be great but it doesn't mean the soldiers of TGM must brandish their arms anytime an alternate viewpoint is introduced. Funny, this debate reminds me of Evolution vs Creation.

E.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
The REAL point here is this:

Why would ANYONE teach ANYONE to have less lag? (some do)

I have the answer......but...ya'll take your guesses
 
Total Driving Leaders as of yesterday....

post em up goat

Jonathan Kaye   - lots of lag
Joey Sindelar   - dad's an authroized instructor
Darren Clarke   - lots of lag
Retief Goosen   - shorten's his left arm....has forever
Phil Mickelson  - boat loads of lag
Jeff Brehaut   - absolute monster
Brian Bateman   - LSU boy...need we say more
Vijay Singh   - lag out the ying yang...
Peter Lonard - forearms it out there
Stephen Ames - lag
Zach Johnson - little guy with trigger delay

this, of course, is empirical observation...so it is worse than useless
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
That Mikestloc may be the WORLD'S BEST 'Blow-up-the-arguement' ("bla-bloom") poster.

Also Mike has lots of lag and LOST a long drive contest Saturday by 10 yards....he hit it close to 300 yards UPHILL in the rain, and lost to a 19 year old weight lifting/suppliment taking/lots of lag kid with a driver that he got off of the tour....

PS Niether guy made so much as a practice swing and they have a really good teacher ;)
 
MizunoJoe,

Peter Croker taught something like this. His procedure looked kind of like a variation of Hitting to me. I tried it, but hit the ball Very high with the irons.

They had to change the name to something else, because they had the same name as another well known system.

Some of their information was from TGM, however.
 
Croker was originally Natural Golf, but had to change when the Moe Norman boys got dibs on that handle. He's a pusher, which is OK, but he then says pulling is "an illusion". Amazing - I hit 2 large buckets of illusions today.
 
Yeah, total driving is the end all to end all money maker on tour isnt it? Man, there is more to it than that. Christ what is this stuff about lag? Yes lag is great. Yes lag gives power. Never mind, i've got a frigging brick wall to go argue with. I'm done here.
 
Brian,

Was I right about why some teach less lag? That it's done to keep the clubhead on plane by the letting the clubhead drop down behind - known as "releasing under".
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Joe, you are correct about ONE of the reasons some teach REDUCING LAG.

But, In my opinion, they are all looking for a shortcut.

Pixie....too much dust, buddy :)
 
quote:Originally posted by brianman

I don't understand Fan...you don't beleive in lag?

Of course I believe in lag Brian. My problem is that if someone dares question TGM they are attacked ala EdZ. I dont agree with everything Ed says, and I dont agree with everything anyone says. I just am getting a sour taste in my mouth from all the TGM guys who refuse to think that maybe there are other ways to teach or learn a golf swing. I realize this is a TGM themed forum. But the discussion area is titled "Golf swing discussion and Debate". I dont know who PPT3 is and I will not judge anyone. He might be one hell of a nice guy. But that thread where he called out Ed just rubbed me the wrong way, and more and more when I look at things, it just seems that if you dont prescribe 100% to the beliefs and jargon of TGM then you are either a hack student who is lazy and doesnt want to learn, or you are a hack teacher who wants to take the easy way out in teaching your students a life time of bandaids and patches. Is that how YOU feel? Because it's definitely the impression I am getting. Cetainly no offense to you or anyone else. But it's just the feeling that I have been getting over the past several weeks.
 
Brian,

Since you thought Mikestloc "blew up" this thread, maybe you can explain what he meant by "post em up goat".

Here in So. Cal. we aren't familiar with this lingo. We are too busy checking out all the beautiful girls on the beach.

Just want to know if I am being called out.

Especially by someone who hits it 300 yards uphill into the wind with the snow falling and no practice swings while carrying a safe on his back.;)

Redgoat
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
No snow Brady, just a steady rain.

Post 'em up goat, I am sure, meant, post the pics of his driving leader list.

...Oh, and if you want to LD with mike, I am sure he'll have a go with all his lag ;)

...but, Mike will respond himself....all in fun buddy, all in fun...
 
brian, quit posting this LD bs....redgoat...i'm sure the girls on the beach have clouded your brain a little, but of course..post em up goat means exactly what brian said it means...post the sequences of the top ten total drivers and the people on this forum can empirically decide for themselves how much or how little lag the ten best drivers on tour have....

i'm sure these sequences will spur on much more debate, which is what this forum is all about..

for the record though....see if you can produce an impact picture that shows a TOUR player who has his hands "behind" the ball at impact the same amount andrade and faxon have their hands in "front" of the ball at impact....if you think about it along those terms, you can see why when brian video'd his pitch shot, he exaggerated his forward hands to demonstrate a point....

also, does it say something that andrade and faxon ARE IN FACT on tour and the players who have their hands an equal amount behind the ball at impact are all in the sixth flight at their club championship?....i think it speaks volumes....post em up, goat
 
Mike,

I will see what I can do about posting what I can off the list.

I never said the hands should be behind the clubhead at impact.

That wasn't the point, the title of this thread was "hands too far forward".

I know Brian was exaggerating on his chip, but Faxon and Andrade weren't trying to exaggerate for effect. I thought it was interesting that the two pictures of players exaggerating impact conditions that Brian demonstrates are NOT among the best drivers or ball strikers in the game.

They aren't even close.

My point is that maybe this desire to push the hands well forward with maximum delay is not the best approach for amatuers and professionals alike.

Redgoat
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top