Harmon "teaches" pitching to a handle-dragger

[dschultz6072]

How many of US, yes that's you and me, were ignorant of this not too long ago. And you know what, only users of a LM really need to know about it IMHO.

As long as you don't think the ball can spin sideways and backwards independently, or spin forward and stay in the air. I happen to think knowing the ball only spins one direction and that direction can only be tilted one way is pretty important. So many people think they can do strange things to a golf ball that just don't make any common sense.

 

[wulsy]

schultzy, anyone who ever believed a ball could spin in two directions at once missed all his science classes in school.

 

[wulsy]

I don't understand your comment.

What I was saying was that understanding the spin tilt (or call it what you will) is not really a part of playing golf, or even teaching golf. Unless you are teaching with a LM.

 

[Ringer]

I found more video of Jose chipping, but in this video the swing length is the same as what Butch is showing for the BACKSWING. Clearly though, the forward swing is much further and the hand action is quite different.

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[dschultz6072]

schultzy, anyone who ever believed a ball could spin in two directions at once missed all his science classes in school.

I have heard many people who think it can, whether they realize it or not.

 

[Ringer]

schultzy, anyone who ever believed a ball could spin in two directions at once missed all his science classes in school.

What I haven't gotten a DIFINITIVE answer on yet though is, can the axis itself rotate while in the air?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

What I haven't gotten a DIFINITIVE answer on yet though is, can the axis itself rotate while in the air?

By definition no, that isn't what an axis is. The axis can continue to tilt in a direction but an axis itself isn't rotating.

 

[wulsy]

That's what I mean! Nobody really knows whats going on whilst the ball is traveling through the air.

 

[wulsy]

According to the simplistic d plane stuff I've seen, the ball only curves after it starts falling. Is that correct? Surely not?

 

[Ringer]

By definition no, that isn't what an axis is. The axis can continue to tilt in a direction but an axis itself isn't rotating.

If the Earth's axis can wobble and shift, why can't a golf ball?

A bowling balls axis is in a constant shift while traveling along the oil, this is primarily due to the weight block which actually causes this shift. A golf ball with slight deviations in weight would most certainly shift it's axis as the weight shifts towards the equator.

 

[BrendanC]

I think Harmon gives a good lesson here.

You want your teacher to have a good time and be your buddy or tell you what you're doing wrong and how to fix it!?

 

[dschultz6072]

If the Earth's axis can wobble and shift, why can't a golf ball?

A bowling balls axis is in a constant shift while traveling along the oil, this is primarily due to the weight block which actually causes this shift. A golf ball with slight deviations in weight would most certainly shift it's axis as the weight shifts towards the equator.

Which is why people don't generally play with screwed up golf balls.

I'm sure you've seen the occasional range ball that you knew was going to fly funny actually do so. I've hit range balls that made a corkscrew ball flight. You would never try to play with such.

 

[lia41985]

If the Earth's axis can wobble and shift, why can't a golf ball?

A bowling balls axis is in a constant shift while traveling along the oil, this is primarily due to the weight block which actually causes this shift. A golf ball with slight deviations in weight would most certainly shift it's axis as the weight shifts towards the equator.

Yes. The wobble issue is something Brian and Kevin have commented on before:

I have played football my whole life.

Katrina—the bitch—basically ended my near lifelong competitive streak.

Anyhoo, Tom Bartlett & Mike Finney wanted to buy me a nice birthday presnt one year, and took me to a sporting goods store to buy a new "Authentic" NFL "Game Ball."

I walked over to the display of maybe 30 of these "Game Balls," and started spinning them in the air one-by-one.

Tom Bartlett, he of 160 IQ and always curious mind, asked me what I was doing.

"Ya see these balls spin? They are wobbling all over dodge."

Tom could see it easy, and we started testing the balls one-by-one.

Only one decent ball out of 30.

And THAT one would have MAYBE been an NFL practice ball.

You take 30 of those balls and you get a NFL game day warm-up ball. 30 of THOSE and get some NFL Game ball KICKING balls, 30 more to get "Game Balls."

Just curious Future37...have you ever been inside a Tour Van, or looked into PGA Tour player's bags from up close.

Not Edwin Watts, buddy. Trust me.

Lest anyone still need any more convincing, I had a two time Major winner hand me a sleeve with the following quote "Wait till you hit these, they're the hot tomales"

One year I worked with David in New Orleans, and for the week, David pays me pretty darn good.

His caddy at the time, Scotty, knows pretty much how much DT would pay a teacher for the week. He also knows I can call an equipment company and get a few dozen balls any old time.

He still gave me some used balls.

Get it?

 

[dbl]

Originally Posted by Ringer

What I haven't gotten a DEFINITIVE answer on yet though is, can the axis itself rotate while in the air?

By definition no, that isn't what an axis is. The axis can continue to tilt in a direction but an axis itself isn't rotating.

Actually yes, the ball can veer in flight..ie the axis of rotation (the entire ball) shift. Due mainly to deformed balls, cover problems etc. As the ball's spin rate decreases as the ball falls toward the ground, you can also see wind gusts move the ball around and shift the spin axis orientation.

I'm trying to think of a perfectly formed and weighted ball and given an inital impact, whether there would be a certian amount of precession of the axis...would the dynamic equations yield any? I suppose from the explanation here: (Precession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) the answer is NO...unless further forces/torques are applied.

Torque-free precession occurs when the axis of rotation differs slightly from an axis about which the object can rotate stably

 

[Ringer]

Originally Posted by Ringer

What I haven't gotten a DEFINITIVE answer on yet though is, can the axis itself rotate while in the air?


Actually yes, the ball can veer in flight..ie the axis of rotation (the entire ball) shift. Due mainly to deformed balls, cover problems etc. As the ball's spin rate decreases as the ball falls toward the ground, you can also see wind gusts move the ball around and shift the spin axis orientation.

I'm trying to think of a perfectly formed and weighted ball and given an inital impact, whether there would be a certian amount of precession of the axis...would the dynamic equations yield any? I suppose from the explanation here: (Precession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) the answer is NO...unless further forces/torques are applied.

One of the main reasons I don't trust the average clubfitter is because they only regard what the ball does. With the ball nearly always ignored as the possible reason for a result.

 

[wulsy]

According to the simplistic d plane stuff I've seen, the ball only curves after it starts falling. Is that correct? Surely not?

Any takers on this? Frans? Brian? Anyone?

 

[Cloran]

Any takers on this? Frans? Brian? Anyone?

I've hit plenty of balls that curve on the way up...

I thinking a ball will start to curve when the forward velocity is less than any other force being applied to the ball, right?

 

[wulsy]

I know my question is pretty stoopid. I'm just interested in the rate of change of the curvature during the ball flight.

 

[Frans@France]

I know my question is pretty stoopid. I'm just interested in the rate of change of the curvature during the ball flight.

Rule of thumb: A spin axis of 10° will take the ball 7% to the side – Meaning a 200 yards carry with a +10° spin axis will curve 14 yards to the right

 

[wulsy]

Thanks Frans, but I would also like to know WHEN the curve happens as (to the best of my knowledge) it doesn't happen uniformly throughout the ball flight.