How to ZERO OUT the path (with Brian Manzella long answer and MATH!)

[benhogan55]

could someone....

give a specific example incorporating components(stance, alignment, aim, etc) Brian has discussed to:

1. With a driver
a) what to do to hit a draw
b) hit a fade

then do the same with a 7 iron

I am confused!

 

[cmartingolf]

No wonder when I go back to my swing notes from 7 years ago, I wrote that I had to try to hit a little cut to make it go straight.

Didn't know why. Now I do.

I had the same thoughts when I was about 14. My baby fade feel was how I produced baby draws....

I was so hell bent on having perfect alignment, thinking it was key.

 

[Zztop]

The above scenario is utopian and golfers tend to interfere with such ideals.

Subconsciously we all tend to override what appears to be going wrong and, in this case, would try to square the club face (close it to the club head path) and steer the ball away from its natural flight path and onto the one we want it to take - "fore left!".

one small problem 1. your swing is run by your subconscious,which is on automatic, only way to interfere with it is consciously and your conscious thought runs way to slow for you to alter the shot. years ago they did an experiment on this exact theory, that you could so called save it. it was done using pros.put in a room one at a time and when they saw the light in the room go off and then back on try to alter their swing in some way, not one could do it. that 's the short version i don't remember all the exact specifics of the experiment, 2.that's why you can drive your car, smoke a cigar, yell at the kids, swear at another driver that cut you off, and carry on a conversation on your cell and still get to your destination without killing anyone.unless of course you make a mistake like humans are prone to do from time to time.

 

[Burner]

one small problem 1. your swing is run by your subconscious,which is on automatic, only way to interfere with it is consciously and your conscious thought runs way to slow for you to alter the shot. years ago they did an experiment on this exact theory, that you could so called save it. it was done using pros.put in a room one at a time and when they saw the light in the room go off and then back on try to alter their swing in some way, not one could do it. that 's the short version i don't remember all the exact specifics of the experiment, 2.that's why you can drive your car, smoke a cigar, yell at the kids, swear at another driver that cut you off, and carry on a conversation on your cell and still get to your destination without killing anyone.

On the contrary! Your golf swing is a very deliberate, pre-planned and consciously executed action. You will firstly establish, and then try to retain, control throughout.

You will be fully aware of your intentions and what needs to be done to fulfil them, thus ensuring a successful outcome.

You will also know instinctively if things subsequently appear to be not as intended and will react (no time for conscious thought now) by reflex. That is when a sound golf shot, in principle, transmogrifies into a steer or some other form of compensation that you had not factored into the process when you put your swing into motion.

 

[Zztop]

On the contrary! Your golf swing is a very deliberate, pre-planned and consciously executed action. You will firstly establish, and then try to retain, control throughout.

You will be fully aware of your intentions and what needs to be done to fulfil them, thus ensuring a successful outcome.

You will also know instinctively if things subsequently appear to be not as intended and will react (no time for conscious thought now) by reflex. That is when a sound golf shot, in principle, transmogrifies into a steer or some other form of compensation that you had not factored into the process when you put your swing into motion.

so then you know when your bad shots are coming, why do you still hit them assuming of course you hit bad shots. the reason is you don't know and more than that you don't know how many that day! if you watched any of the golf today you saw your fill of bad shots from some of the best they couldn't stop them, but you can? i'm sure they have some pretty good reflexes.factor that in!

 

[Burner]

Oh my, oh my. Houston we have a problem!

so then you know when your bad shots are coming, why do you still hit them.

That is not what I wrote at all. Only an idiot would play a bad shot that he knew was coming. Similarly, only an idiot could interpret what I wrote as you have. However, for the record, I am assuming this creative interpretation is only made for the mischievous purpose of prolonging the argument and is not just a brain fart.

If you watched any of the golf today you saw your fill of bad shots from some of the best they couldn't stop them, but you can? i'm sure they have some pretty good reflexes.factor that in!

Again, your interpretation is letting you down. I saw many good shots today that had unfortunate outcomes: that is the nature of Golf, unfortunately.

Tour players are what they are because they make good swings; only rarely do they (need to) react, instinctively when their subconscious indicates that something is going awry mid-swing. Nevertheless, on occasion, instinctive reactions are made and the Commentators then take great delight in spotting them and "enlightening" us viewers.

I'm done with this now as we are only going further off topic.

 

[Zztop]

That is not what I wrote at all. Only an idiot would play a bad shot that he knew was coming. Similarly, only an idiot could interpret what I wrote as you have. However, for the record, I am assuming this creative interpretation is only made for the mischievous purpose of prolonging the argument and is not just a brain fart.



Again, your interpretation is letting you down. I saw many good shots today that had unfortunate outcomes: that is the nature of Golf, unfortunately.

Tour players are what they are because they make good swings; only rarely do they (need to) react, instinctively when their subconscious indicates that something is going awry mid-swing. Nevertheless, on occasion, instinctive reactions are made and the Commentators then take great delight in spotting them and "enlightening" us viewers.

I'm done with this now as we are only going further off topic.

what was the topic again? oh yeah, i said: they didn't know the bad shots were coming and you shouldn't call tour players idiots, that's up to the announcers!

 

[Brian Manzella]

Zz

I like to debate, but you have ruined a really good thread.

This is the kind of stuff that makes really smart people tune out.

BManz

 

[Steve Greffen]

I like to debate, but you have ruined a really good thread.

This is the kind of stuff that makes really smart people tune out.

BManz

Correct. And I don't think I am really smart but when you debate just to debate and acknowledge that that is why your debating than you have found the wrong forum. Finney has you pegged for BB but you could be Future or any of the others that just post antagonistic drivel it doesn't matter it still is what it is...a load of BS.

Of course this is what you feed on, these responses so just ignore and move on to greener pastures so the thread can continue.

Most appreciative ZZ,

Steve

 

[benhogan55]

Can anyone answer this?

give a specific example incorporating components(stance, alignment, aim, etc) Brian has discussed to:

1. With a driver
a) what to do to hit a draw
b) hit a fade

then do the same with a 7 iron

I am confused!

anyone care to eloborate?

 

[Brian Manzella]

anyone care to eloborate?

Example Numbers for...

Driver Draw

Aim 35 yards (8°) right at 250 yards.

Swing (Plane Line) down this "Aim Line."

Hit the ball 4° on the way up.

That will make your path ~4° inside-out.

Have the Clubface 2° open.

The ball will start about 11 yards to the right and curve left almost perfectly to the middle of the fairway.

 

[benhogan55]

ok...that makes sense...

The confusing part is when you talk about the downward portion...
How would the 7 iron be different when you consider the downward strike?
How does this affect the path and clubface position? I assume for a fade you would reverse the numbers for the driver?

Thanks for your response.

 

[texagjosh]

It'd be nice to have a handy Excel calculator that you could plug numbers into for paths, clubface angles, etc and have the ball flight calculated. It might help clear up some misconception about how much variance in one path/angle affects the overall flight.

 

[Zztop]

Example Numbers for...

Driver Draw

Aim 35 yards (8°) right at 250 yards.

Swing (Plane Line) down this "Aim Line."

Hit the ball 4° on the way up.

That will make your path ~4° inside-out.

Have the Clubface 2° open.

The ball will start about 11 yards to the right and curve left almost perfectly to the middle of the fairway.

is this for the average hacker or for the more advanced golfer, i don't mean understanding it, i mean performing it, is it even possible to know the amount of degrees of way up, path, clubface etc. a legit question no hidden agenda. or are these approxamations?

 

[dbl]

When driving a car, you are supposed to stay within the lines of your lane. That is whether you are an experienced driver or a newbie.

In regards BM's draw numbers, as long as a person has the skillset to attmept to do something proper, I say let them.

 

[Zztop]

When driving a car, you are supposed to stay within the lines of your lane. That is whether you are an experienced driver or a newbie.

In regards BM's draw numbers, as long as a person has the skillset to attmept to do something proper, I say let them.

that's not what i'm asking, of course you try things newbie or experienced. thank's for the driving tip, but wrong kind of driving

 

[Kamloops]

I am working on the soft draw pattern. Does the information in this thread change anything about the soft draw pattern or is it reinforcing and further explaining the principles of that way of swinging? Thanks.

 

[jaridyard]

Hope someone with Trackman can answer this for me.

Does the trackman data for club path give the TRUE Path?

I would assume so but everybody is getting quite caught up in the numbers and calculations. If true path is fed back instantaneously in a lesson however zeroing the path would be as simple as shifting the horizontal plane line and or angle of approach wherever necessary. Then we can forget calculations and work on improving the path!

I'm lucky enough to be using Trackman next week and must know!

 

[ggsjpc]

Hope someone with Trackman can answer this for me.

Does the trackman data for club path give the TRUE Path?

I would assume so but everybody is getting quite caught up in the numbers and calculations. If true path is fed back instantaneously in a lesson however zeroing the path would be as simple as shifting the horizontal plane line and or angle of approach wherever necessary. Then we can forget calculations and work on improving the path!

I'm lucky enough to be using Trackman next week and must know!

yes it gives the true path.

 

[Brian Manzella]

It does...and it doesn't

TrackMan give Club Path which I one HALF of what I have dubbed "True Path."

The other half is the Attack Angle.