Jamie Lovemark Swing...

[lia41985]

Now that I know what the heck I am looking for, Paula has one of the best swings in golf.

How do you like this one?:
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And if the guys don't think this girl is tough enough or someone they can learn from...well:
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[Kevin Shields]

Thats a great point, there has to be backup to anything, saying it science does not make it so.

I dont see anywhere that Brian said its "scientifically proven". Just mentioned research done on sweetspot path and shoulder plane. Sounds like an opinion based on his research. Take it or leave it.

 

[Glordfocker]

I dont see anywhere that Brian said its "scientifically proven". Just mentioned research done on sweetspot path and shoulder plane. Sounds like an opinion based on his research. Take it or leave it.

Basic stuff from Morad, interesting that you guys find this a new revolution, just like the pivot video doing the rounds with some upper thoracic extension for layback of the face. viva la revolution, keep up the hard work

 

[Brian Manzella]

Thats a great point, there has to be backup to anything, saying it science does not make it so.

You are correct.

Just like "The Golfing Machine."

Basic stuff from Morad, interesting that you guys find this a new revolution, just like the pivot video doing the rounds with some upper thoracic extension for layback of the face. viva la revolution, keep up the hard work

I checked with some morad guys, this is not quite the same thing, and is part of a complete system that is NOTHING like morad.

Especially with the shoulder movement.

But, good job, you found an almost similarity.

Keep up the good work.

 

[cmartingolf]

I'm intrigued!! Can't wait to learn this stuff.

 

[lia41985]

I'm intrigued!! Can't wait to learn this stuff.

I think maybe there's something to be learned from Y.E. Yang:
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The way the club, hands, arms, shoulders, and the rest of the body pivot work together from approximately the :23 second until the :25 second mark looks like butter...his full iron swing has the rhythmic co-ordination of a pitch shot. Really reminds me of Sam Snead, almost--just a slight pull (in relation to his stance which is accommodates how left he swings) that goes straight where he wants I'd love to see him light up Trackman! Seems like kinda a different way of zeroing out, no, at least compared to having a stance pointing more left? I'm wondering, would Snead and Trevino's swings be considered zeroed out?

 

[Glordfocker]

You are correct.

Just like "The Golfing Machine."



I checked with some morad guys, this is not quite the same thing, and is part of a complete system that is NOTHING like morad.

Especially with the shoulder movement.

But, good job, you found an almost similarity.

Keep up the good work.

So these morad guys told you that ogrady has specific moves with the right shoulder and the left shoulder for that matter plus a bunch of other stuff that ties in with sweetspot plane OR they had no clue OR they didn't tell you

 

[lia41985]

In the last three videos I've posted (Creamer, Lim, and Yang), that motion of their arms and hands don't look like an underhand javelin toss, but seems to really work at producing what looks to be shots that looks as straight as can be. Is the underhand javelin toss a valuable component for those looking to "zero out" or is it more appropriate for those looking to draw the ball? It seems easier (in terms of repeatability and precision of movement) and more desirable (in terms of zero-ing out) to have the motion these three do, which seems to involve some right hand palmar flexion rather than right hand ulnar deviation (which is what the underhand javelin toss seems to me to be) paired with right arm pronation. Anyone else seeing this or am I just hearing my own echoes...

 

[lia41985]

Have to agree Kevin....

Our latest research says this is a mismatched shoulder turn/swing plane.

A more easily seen mismatch:
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Another:
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Looks like they could both do more to step onto their right foot on their backswings...

Great matching:
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This swing SCREAMS wayyy more athleticism than the Lovemark clips I've seen. I think people are confusing Lovemark looking strained as a look of athleticism. Edfors looks dynamic and freakin' explosive! Remember that, cause the stretch shorten cycle is important! Looks like Lovemark would make the better contortionist and Edfors the guy I could count on to sprint from a trailing position to slam dunking a put-back rebound on a fastbreak. Alternatively, I could see him being one hell of lumberjack. Remember this?:

Edfors has a very TIGHT backswing, with almost no lower body movement and a very stable upper body as far as laterally speaking.

He has one of the best SIT and TILT moves ever. Ben would say he is letting a PACK of DOGS through his legs and catching the LAST ONE by the tip of the tail!

Has a Hogan-like move past the follow-through.

Screw a s--- and tilt, I'd rather sit and tilt! The golf swing in ten words: step, pull back, turn, run up, sit, tilt, and jump.

More great matching 38 to :45):
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Sergio's famed tumble!

 

[Kevin Shields]

So these morad guys told you that ogrady has specific moves with the right shoulder and the left shoulder for that matter plus a bunch of other stuff that ties in with sweetspot plane OR they had no clue OR they didn't tell you

Oh boy, here we go.

 

[Brian Manzella]

So these morad guys told you that ogrady has specific moves with the right shoulder and the left shoulder for that matter plus a bunch of other stuff that ties in with sweetspot plane OR they had no clue OR they didn't tell you

You guys are too much.

I started drawing lines on 2D stills in 1984. By 1986, I had figured out a whole system based on my findings. I called it "Absolute Golf."

Looking back, some of it was good, some of it wasn't, some would up being like TGM before I knew TGM, and some is like the new stuff I am finding out from our scientists now.

Surely the same thing happened with Mac.

There are ALL SORTS of things that any 5th grade girls school class project would find that are similar in some respects to my stuff, Mac's stuffs, Homer's Stuff, etc. plus all of the spin offs stuff.

Geez...

You draw dots on the sweetspot, the hands, the knees, the shaft, the eyes...etc. they will start to have a relationship to each other at some point.

Having said that...

I have ALWAYS had this problem with MORAD:

I have never been a big fan of the swings it produced.

We had an "in" many years ago, before some of these cats were even born. Tommie Mudd played with Mike Finney at LSU. We had all the tapes, lessons, etc....

I have kept up with the progress of that system over the years. I am sure there is a lot of great things.

The science is showing that Homer was pretty far off with the right shoulder (amoung other things), and Mac knew that, and that's great.

But many of the swings that I like, like many of the more upright ones, never seem to get produced by morad teachers, are being found to be very good by the scientists.

We were DEAD WRONG in many things because we thought TGM had all the answers.

You guys don't have all the answers either--no one does.

We are finding that these RESTRICTIVE SWINGS ARE NOT OPTIMUM.

Not close.

We think our stuff will be an upgrade, and we'll get it published.

 

[Ringer]

...
We are finding that these RESTRICTIVE SWINGS ARE NOT OPTIMUM.

Not close.

Our stuff will be better, and we'll get it published.

Sounds like Jimmy Ballard is out the door too then.

 

[gmbtempe]

I dont see anywhere that Brian said its "scientifically proven". Just mentioned research done on sweetspot path and shoulder plane. Sounds like an opinion based on his research. Take it or leave it.

My comment was just a reply to his point.....lots of smart people make claims, does not make them true without the supporting documentation, at least in my eyes.

 

[dbl]

That's kind of a confusing statement, with the use of double nots and the 'without.'

So did you mean:

1. Lots of smart people make claims, and those claims are not untrue just because there is no supportive documentation provided.

2. Lots of smart people make claims, and those claims are not accepted as true without supporting documentation.

 

[gmbtempe]

That's kind of a confusing statement, with the use of double nots and the 'without.'

So did you mean:

1. Lots of smart people make claims, and those claims are not untrue just because there is no supportive documentation provided.

2. Lots of smart people make claims, and those claims are not accepted as true without supporting documentation.

2

 

[footwedge]

My comment was just a reply to his point.....lots of smart people make claims, does not make them true without the supporting documentation, at least in my eyes.

You mean like Mac. Also the supporting documentation is up for scrutiny by peer review, just because someone provides "documentation" doesn't make things true. There's lot's of documentation in golf that isn't woth the paper it's written on and a lot of us have read and digested it, to find out it's garbage.

 

[Jared Willerson]

Great point footwedge. A lot of people are constantly telling Brian to prove it...to the point of being silly, yet others say something and it is taken as gospel, with no evidence (scientific or otherwise) used to back it up.

Don't tell me subjective stuff like "ballflight" or "sound of impact" either. Lots of people hit it good and lots of people have a good sounding impact.

 

[gmbtempe]

You mean like Mac. Also the supporting documentation is up for scrutiny by peer review, just because someone provides "documentation" doesn't make things true. There's lot's of documentation in golf that isn't woth the paper it's written on and a lot of us have read and digested it, to find out it's garbage.

Thats a good point on your second sentence.

Mac to my knowledge has never made any claims on the net or anywhere else regarding what he is doing or what anyone else is doing, do you have a video or article?

 

[footwedge]

Thats a good point on your second sentence.

Mac to my knowledge has never made any claims on the net or anywhere else regarding what he is doing or what anyone else is doing, do you have a video or article?

Well, how do they teach his concepts if no one knows?

 

[gmbtempe]

Well, how do they teach his concepts if no one knows?

You said "Like Mac"....but to my knowledge he has never made claims in public, or written, and if he has that you know of I would love to read it.

Now to my knowledge the only way to directly learn anything he teaches is to attend a clinic in person. I think you can get good information from teachers who have attended many clinics but again there is going to be interpretation of his words and the picture gets muddled. If we want to talk in generalities I think thats about as far as you can go, stuff like steep shoulder turn, swing left of the ball target line, knee flexes, pressure points under arms, stuff like that.