jimmy mclean on perfection

[Richie3Jack]

Richie, I think those interested in you comments on O'hair were more interested in what you saw in his new swing that was going to give him problems.

I didn't see a 'new swing' in that video. Really just more of the same.

Here's a swing from mid-March 2011.

YouTube - ‪Sean O_hair golf swing‬‏

Here's the swing at the Colonial

YouTube - ‪Sean O'Hair 2011 Crowne Plaza Colonial‬‏

He was only about a week or so officially removed from Foley at the Colonial. So to me, I don't a difference between the 2 videos and given that he was 1 week removed from Foley...I conclude that not much of a change was made.

And I could see why he was struggling.

I won't got into it because it's not my place to, but the facts are:

- he was struggling statistically
- he was struggling to the point he dumped Foley
- his 'new swing' didn't look all that 'new' because the 'feel ain't real.'



3JACK

 

[spmurph]

I didn't see a 'new swing' in that video. Really just more of the same.

Here's a swing from mid-March 2011.

YouTube - ‪Sean O_hair golf swing‬‏

Here's the swing at the Colonial

YouTube - ‪Sean O'Hair 2011 Crowne Plaza Colonial‬‏

He was only about a week or so officially removed from Foley at the Colonial. So to me, I don't a difference between the 2 videos and given that he was 1 week removed from Foley...I conclude that not much of a change was made.

And I could see why he was struggling.

I won't got into it because it's not my place to, but the facts are:

- he was struggling statistically
- he was struggling to the point he dumped Foley
- his 'new swing' didn't look all that 'new' because the 'feel ain't real.'



3JACK

Guess the better term should have been "post Foley swing". You know what I meant and what others wanted to hear after your post. You say that you see things that are going to give him problems and then say that it is not your place to say what the "things" are. What is that about? Maybe it will be in your next "blog".

 

[oldpro]

I didn't see a 'new swing' in that video. Really just more of the same.

Here's a swing from mid-March 2011.

YouTube - ‪Sean O_hair golf swing‬‏

Here's the swing at the Colonial

YouTube - ‪Sean O'Hair 2011 Crowne Plaza Colonial‬‏

He was only about a week or so officially removed from Foley at the Colonial. So to me, I don't a difference between the 2 videos and given that he was 1 week removed from Foley...I conclude that not much of a change was made.

And I could see why he was struggling.

I won't got into it because it's not my place to, but the facts are:

- he was struggling statistically
- he was struggling to the point he dumped Foley
- his 'new swing' didn't look all that 'new' because the 'feel ain't real.'



3JACK

I hear that "Feel isn't real" all the time on the Internet. I certainly understand why some say it teaching hackers but I'll ask you this question: Doesn't a high end touring pro work on mechanics and ultimately feel what he's doing? In my experience all a player has when the bell rings is feel.

Take David Toms on Saturday at the Colonial...he lost his feel...got it back on Sunday and won, but damned near lost it when he felt like he was trying to hit it with the grip end of the club on Saturday.

What say you??

 

[Kevin Shields]

What is so hard about saying what you see that you feel will give him problems? Anyone can look at stats.

So I'll ask again, since you said you saw several things that will give him problems, would you like to share what they are?

 

[Richie3Jack]

So I'll ask again, since you said you saw several things that will give him problems, would you like to share what they are?

No, I wouldn't.

Not my place to do so.




3JACK

 

[Richie3Jack]

I hear that "Feel isn't real" all the time on the Internet. I certainly understand why some say it teaching hackers but I'll ask you this question: Doesn't a high end touring pro work on mechanics and ultimately feel what he's doing? In my experience all a player has when the bell rings is feel.

Take David Toms on Saturday at the Colonial...he lost his feel...got it back on Sunday and won, but damned near lost it when he felt like he was trying to hit it with the grip end of the club on Saturday.

What say you??

I'm a steadfast believer in learning feel from mechanics instead of learning mechanics from feel. The 'feel ain't real' and what you feel and works for you may be different from what I feel and works for me....even if we are trying to learn the same mechanics.

I also find that it's easy to lose a 'feel' over time. Let's say you don't want to overswing, so you find that the feel of 'stop when your thumbs point straight up to the sky' works for you. You do that for a couple of months and it's working great...then one day it's not working for you. So you need to develop a new feel.

I know that happens to me all of the time.






3JACK

 

[oldpro]

I'm a steadfast believer in learning feel from mechanics instead of learning mechanics from feel. The 'feel ain't real' and what you feel and works for you may be different from what I feel and works for me....even if we are trying to learn the same mechanics.

I also find that it's easy to lose a 'feel' over time. Let's say you don't want to overswing, so you find that the feel of 'stop when your thumbs point straight up to the sky' works for you. You do that for a couple of months and it's working great...then one day it's not working for you. So you need to develop a new feel.

I know that happens to me all of the time.3JACK

LOL...I was talking about top touring pros...I would doubt you compare yourself to a top notch touring pro?? Or hell, maybe you do...if so send me some of what you are smoking.

 

[Richie3Jack]

LOL...I was talking about top touring pros...I would doubt you compare yourself to a top notch touring pro?? Or hell, maybe you do...if so send me some of what you are smoking.

I know and talk to quite a few current day players on the PGA, Nationwide, Hooters Tour and Duramed Futures Tour. I have 2 readers that I talk to a few times a year that are former Major championship winners. I don't think I'm off base here based on talking to these guys about subjects like this. They 'lose' their feel and have to 'find' a 'new feel' over time.

Do you really believe that they just use one or two feels for 10 years? 20 years? Just stick with those feels no matter what?

And believe me, most of them do understand that a lot of times, the 'feel isn't real.'

Now, the ones I've talked to tend to learn mechanics from feel. But, that's due to the instructor's teaching style. I've had some of them ask me to explain 'learning feel from mechanics' and have yet to find one of them that didn't like the concept. They may disagree with the mechanics, but they understand the basic principle that a feel that works for one golfer may not work for them.

But, I'll go back to smoking.





3JACK

 

[oldpro]

I know and talk to quite a few current day players on the PGA, Nationwide, Hooters Tour and Duramed Futures Tour. I have 2 readers that I talk to a few times a year that are former Major championship winners. I don't think I'm off base here based on talking to these guys about subjects like this. They 'lose' their feel and have to 'find' a 'new feel' over time.

Do you really believe that they just use one or two feels for 10 years? 20 years? Just stick with those feels no matter what?

And believe me, most of them do understand that a lot of times, the 'feel isn't real.'

Now, the ones I've talked to tend to learn mechanics from feel. But, that's due to the instructor's teaching style. I've had some of them ask me to explain 'learning feel from mechanics' and have yet to find one of them that didn't like the concept. They may disagree with the mechanics, but they understand the basic principle that a feel that works for one golfer may not work for them.

But, I'll go back to smoking.3JACK

You've changed your stance on feel from your original "FEEL AIN"T REAL" post. Players change feel, mechanics all the time...what "you" feel has nothing to do with what a top tourning pro feels. Feel is real with the top players in the world as they have to feel the mechanics to actually do them. A top player can make a change so small you'd never notice it on a youtube video. Each player has their own "FEEL" even if they have the same instructor. This is why teaching by the numbers is a crock of shi%.

 

[ekennedy]

I believe I read that Johnny Miller made swing changes while lying in bed at night. He could visualize a certain movement and put it into play the next morning.

That's feel if I've ever heard of it.

 

[johnnymarlboro]

I believe I read that Johnny Miller made swing changes while lying in bed at night. He could visualize a certain movement and put it into play the next morning.

That's feel if I've ever heard of it.

Not to disregard Johnny Millers amazing achievements, but he says some pretty ridiculous things sometimes. Not to say its not possible that a top player could do something like that, but I think I'd be willing to believe it a little more from someone that didn't have an ego that makes Faldo look humble.

 

[footwedge]

I'm a steadfast believer in learning feel from mechanics instead of learning mechanics from feel. The 'feel ain't real' and what you feel and works for you may be different from what I feel and works for me....even if we are trying to learn the same mechanics.

I also find that it's easy to lose a 'feel' over time. Let's say you don't want to overswing, so you find that the feel of 'stop when your thumbs point straight up to the sky' works for you. You do that for a couple of months and it's working great...then one day it's not working for you. So you need to develop a new feel.

I know that happens to me all of the time.






3JACK

I have a question regarding learning feel from mechanics. How do you apply what an instructor is trying to teach do you use feel or mechanics. How would you learn horizontal hinging, if you don't use your feel senses,( vision, touch, etc.) I mean your hands alone have how many feel receptors, there's a good reason for that don't you think. You need the feel to produce the mechanics otherwise you might as well shoot yourself full of novacaine and use the numb and dumb concept...lol.

 

[Dariusz J.]

You all still in debates about TGM on this 'scientific' forum ? Geez...

Cheers

P.S. I said 'scientific' because this is the only one word that keeps me here. I rather wanted to expand my knowledge in real golf physics, and what I can read here is D-plane and TGM.

 

[faux_maestro]

I have a question regarding learning feel from mechanics. How do you apply what an instructor is trying to teach do you use feel or mechanics. How would you learn horizontal hinging, if you don't use your feel senses,( vision, touch, etc.) I mean your hands alone have how many feel receptors, there's a good reason for that don't you think. You need the feel to produce the mechanics otherwise you might as well shoot yourself full of novacaine and use the numb and dumb concept...lol.

I would think that "feel from mechanics" is best done with the help of a pro you trust that can help you find the mechanics, then learn the way the mechanics feel. Then you can maintain the mechanics with your feel and video/monitor the ball flight.

 

[footwedge]

You all still in debates about TGM on this 'scientific' forum ? Geez...

Cheers

P.S. I said 'scientific' because this is the only one word that keeps me here. I rather wanted to expand my knowledge in real golf physics, and what I can read here is D-plane and TGM.

Is that your last post?

 

[Dariusz J.]

Is that your last post?

Who knows...for every case, put your bottle of champagne into the fridge since the toics here are becoming pathetically as far away from biophysics as possible. I never felt welcomed here (rather destroyed...lol) although there were times of good debates here...I do not remember you participating in these anyhow...LOL.

Cheers

 

[dbl]

Regarding Miller and bed....I couldn't say, but there is the story Hogan tells himself, where Hogan came back from the tour and couldn't get a 4wood airborne

see 1:05 in the video
YouTube - ‪Hogan‬‏

 

[Dariusz J.]

Regarding Miller and bed....I couldn't say, but there is the story Hogan tells himself, where Hogan came back from the tour and couldn't get a 4wood airborne

see 1:05 in the video
YouTube - ‪Hogan‬‏

Yes. This is the difference between pre- and post-secret Hogan. Post-secret Hogan would astonish Trackman with the numbers for many reasons. No more excessive silly forward shaft lean at imapact, no more excessive silly palmar flexed lead wrist held forever, no more excessive silly crossover at impact zone, no more silly trust in hands etc.
And there were times people here believed that pre-secret swing was better...LOL.

Cheers

 

[footwedge]

Yes. This is the difference between pre- and post-secret Hogan. Post-secret Hogan would astonish Trackman with the numbers for many reasons. No more excessive silly forward shaft lean at imapact, no more excessive silly palmar flexed lead wrist held forever, no more excessive silly crossover at impact zone, no more silly trust in hands etc.
And there were times people here believed that pre-secret swing was better...LOL.

Cheers

Didn't Hogan like the pre-secret swing better. I seen on a video where he said exactly that he swung it better before the accident and he would never be able to swing it that good again. I guess you can't believe what you hear right from the Man himself, right Dariusz.

 

[ekennedy]

Darius, I think you add a lot to the forum and I'm glad you're here.

Golf is, and always will be, a game of feel. We are not robots. We will constantly make changes based on how something feels and its a good teacher that will convey that to a student in a way that makes sense to THEM.

I like scientific debates as well, but there is only so much a player can adjust in terms of degrees.