jimmy mclean on perfection

[trickyric67]

Jim Mclean has been all over the map on what he teaches, 12 step back in his days with David Glenz to 8 step to X-factor to whatever he does now. having spent time with him and his team I can tell you that there isn't much continuity from one teacher to the next in his organization and certainly no prescribed "McLean program", So I don't put much value to his opinion (he gets results, but I don't know about his school). I do know that while we have learned about the flaws in TGM over the years I learned more and improved more with their information than Jim's.

 

[Richie3Jack]

(Seriously: if you have a concept of 'compensations', you MUST have a concept of 'perfect').

I disagree.

I look at compensations sorta like driving a car. If we are on a perfectly flat road and start driving and don't put our hand on the steering wheel and the car is misaligned, we would make the 'compensation' of turning the steering wheel to keep us on the road. The question is whether or not you can turn the steering wheel to get you back on track time after time.

I don't think it's a question about whether or not you make compensations, but a question as to whether one can repeat the compensation. If it gives you trouble, then you need to either get rid of it and add a new piece or try to reduce the size of the compensation.

Let's say you have a path of +8* (inside-to-out). If you make adjustments to get that to +2*, is that a concept of a 'perfect swing?'

I don't think so.

I know for me when I work on my swing it has nothing to do with 'making it look good' or 'being perfect' or whatnot. It's about finding the pieces that give me problems on the golf course, determining the best 'end product' and figuring out a way to get there. I'd swing like Eamonn freaking Darcy with an inner ear fluid disorder, if I thought it was the best for me.





3JACK

 

[faux_maestro]

.....Eamonn freaking Darcy.....

3JACK

Excellent. That's all I can say.

 

[trickyric67]

great point Richie!

 

[ScottRob]

Eamon Darcy was no joke! I watched him play right after the '87 Ryder Cup (or was it '85?). His swing looked a lot better in person. Very rhythmical with a sweet strike...everytime. The ball did not seem to mind. I recall a couple of idiots in the stands behind the range giving him grief!

While we are talking about perfection. To play golf at the highest level is it a matter of hitting onetype shot with eery consistency, or the ability to hit specific shots for the situation at hand, or (heaven help prospective players)...both? To me it is about planning "shots" for specific holes etc, then practicing those shots in preparation. It keeps my interest up on both the course and the range. I gave up playing "swing" a long time ago, and now prefer to play golf....yeah right!

 

[Richie3Jack]

While we are talking about perfection. To play golf at the highest level is it a matter of hitting onetype shot with eery consistency, or the ability to hit specific shots for the situation at hand, or (heaven help prospective players)...both? To me it is about planning "shots" for specific holes etc, then practicing those shots in preparation. It keeps my interest up on both the course and the range. I gave up playing "swing" a long time ago, and now prefer to play golf....yeah right!

Most guys on Tour, most of the time...hit one shot. I think Kenny Perry once said if he hit a slight draw he considered it a 'fade.'

From talking to some of these guys over the years, the big thing they don't want is a 2-way miss. If they start doing that, then they are cooked.





3JACK

 

[natep]

3Jack,

You apparently have no problem with Eamonn Darcy's swing, but just the other day you commented on Sean O'Hairs swing that you didnt like it at all and you saw many things that were gonna give him problems, or something to that effect. I think that is exactly McLeans point, that TGM fans can become obsessed with the perfect golf swing.

 

[johnnymarlboro]

Most guys on Tour, most of the time...hit one shot. I think Kenny Perry once said if he hit a slight draw he considered it a 'fade.'

From talking to some of these guys over the years, the big thing they don't want is a 2-way miss. If they start doing that, then they are cooked.

3JACK

I remember Faldo saying something similar about the "Faldo draw", where the ball only fades a yard.

 

[Virtuoso]

I'm not TGM, but I am looking for the perfect swing. But, not perfect positions as much as a perfect concept of how the golf swing should be swung. My natural tendency is to look for the perfect scenario...I just can't help it.

 

[Richie3Jack]

3Jack,

You apparently have no problem with Eamonn Darcy's swing, but just the other day you commented on Sean O'Hairs swing that you didnt like it at all and you saw many things that were gonna give him problems, or something to that effect. I think that is exactly McLeans point, that TGM fans can become obsessed with the perfect golf swing.

This makes no sense.

It's like saying that Brian is searching for the perfect swing because he made changes to David Toms' swing recently.






3JACK

 

[Richie3Jack]

I'm not TGM, but I am looking for the perfect swing. But, not perfect positions as much as a perfect concept of how the golf swing should be swung. My natural tendency is to look for the perfect scenario...I just can't help it.

I think you're looking for perfect results. Aren't we all?





3JACK

 

[natep]

This makes no sense.

It's like saying that Brian is searching for the perfect swing because he made changes to David Toms' swing recently.






3JACK

It's not the same thing at all. There's a story about Brian trying to get Toms into a certain spot at p6 or whatever and how that worked out.

 

[Richie3Jack]

It's not the same thing at all. There's a story about Brian trying to get Toms into a certain spot at p6 or whatever and how that worked out.

You stated:

You apparently have no problem with Eamonn Darcy's swing, but just the other day you commented on Sean O'Hairs swing that you didnt like it at all and you saw many things that were gonna give him problems, or something to that effect

How is that different from Brian making changes to Toms' swing? Obviously, there were some things that Brian didn't like and felt was giving Toms trouble...so he made some changes.

It's not like O'Hair has been hitting it great this year. I've also heard some rumors of some of the issues he's been having and if they are true...it's not pretty.

So how is me saying that I see things that were going to give him problems...to a guy who has been having problems this year...'searching for the perfect swing?'

Unless you think he's been hitting it great this year or you think he has been swinging like that for years and has been hitting it great for years...I just don't understand how you can draw the conclusion that is 'searching for the perfect swing.'






3JACK

 

[natep]

Well maybe I misunderstood your statement. It's one thing to point out this or that, and suggest that maybe he might do better doing this or that, but when you said you dont like it at all and you see lots of stuff wrong, I took that as an implication that you think his swing just flat out sucks. He may not be playing his best right now, but he's still basically one of the top 100 best players in the world. I just think that implying that his swing is garbage is a bit over the top.

 

[gmbtempe]

Well maybe I misunderstood your statement. It's one thing to point out this or that, and suggest that maybe he might do better doing this or that, but when you said you dont like it at all and you see lots of stuff wrong, I took that as an implication that you think his swing just flat out sucks. He may not be playing his best right now, but he's still basically one of the top 100 best players in the world. I just think that implying that his swing is garbage is a bit over the top.

It looks like he is going back to higher hands and more LAFW wedge rotation in the backswing, its going to be interesting to see if that fixes his hook.

 

[natep]

It looks like he is going back to higher hands and more LAFW wedge rotation in the backswing, its going to be interesting to see if that fixes his hook.

I havent had a chance to see any new swing videos yet, but yes it will be interesting to see how it works out.

 

[BrendanC]

Richie -

Aha, but who said the road was flat (classic internet debate move - BOOYAH!).

Seriously: I think the notion of what does or does not qualify as a compensation is completely subjective.

The 'uncompensated' swing is the TGM model (strong single action, right forearm on plane, stilll head yada yada yada).

 

[Richie3Jack]

Well maybe I misunderstood your statement. It's one thing to point out this or that, and suggest that maybe he might do better doing this or that, but when you said you dont like it at all and you see lots of stuff wrong, I took that as an implication that you think his swing just flat out sucks. He may not be playing his best right now, but he's still basically one of the top 100 best players in the world. I just think that implying that his swing is garbage is a bit over the top.

Here's what I said.

I don't like it at all. I see a lot of things that are going to give him problems

Last I checked he was:

113th in my Advanced Total Driving Rankings
82nd in Adjusted Danger Zone Play
115th in Adjusted 50-175 yard shots ranking


In '09 he was:

41st in Advanced Total Driving
29th in Danger Zone Play
I don't have the 50-175 yards...but I think we get the point.

Right now, he's been hitting it...by PGA Tour standards...average to below average. He just got rid of Foley. And living in Orlando, I've got some pretty good sources who have seen him hit it and what they tell me is that it's not pretty.

Call me crazy, generally Tour players don't dump teachers when they are hitting it great

So when I looked at his swing........I saw a lot of things that would give him problems. And it's easy to see the dropoff statistically that he's having and why he's struggled this year. Oh yeah, before the Colonial (the video he took was in the practice round of Colonial)...he missed 5 of his last 6 cuts.

So yeah...I didn't like that swing at all and I could see why he was playing lousy coming into that tournament.





3JACK

 

[spmurph]

Richie, I think those interested in you comments on O'hair were more interested in what you saw in his new swing that was going to give him problems.

 

[faux_maestro]

This makes no sense.

It's like saying that Brian is searching for the perfect swing because he made changes to David Toms' swing recently.






3JACK

My take: We are all searching for the moves that will give us the best or most consistent "numbers" (trackman etc.). There are some moves that make this quest harder. I know I've read several threads on this site where Brian talks very specifically about certain aspects of the swing (pivot, tracing a straight plane line actually gives a resultant path to the right when hitting down etc.) that make getting ideal numbers harder, if not impossible. Does this mean he is "religious" in his search for perfection, or that he is even searching for the unobtainable goal of perfection? The goal of ANY teacher is to guide the student in the search for THEIR ideal, knowing that perfection is IMPOSSIBLE. Doesn't matter if it's a GTE, TGM, BOOK LITERALIST, S&T, NATURAL GOLF, JIM MCLEAN or ANY OTHER method or conception of the swing. This is the goal of the teacher, get the student doing what they can to play better, and do it consistently. You may disagree with HOW they go about it. Is "zeroing out" an unobtainable goal? Probably, if you are talking TRUE zeros more than once or twice per session, but the closer you get the better you will hit the ball.

Before anyone asks, I'm not a teacher of golf. I have no horse in this race. I've studied a little TGM (don't have the book, just internet stuff) and lurked around here for a few months. I'm just trying to get better and understand how not to hit that 30 yard hook.