My Most Recent Swing

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Actually, I am referring to LESS SHIFT TO THE LEFT.

To me, the Snead on the RIGHT and the Stewart on the RIGHT are just PIVOTING without leaning left. :cool: :D

Ah yes....pivot center stays centered instead of moving to golfers left in backswing.

Which image of Snead was the edited one?

Never realized what a huge unrestricted hip and shoulder turn Snead had.
The guy lasted for 50 years - why don't they teach it like this any more?

I like it.....I can't do the left heel up in the backswing deal tho....like Snead, Jack, Jones, Daly, etc.....

Haven't really dedicated time to it.....don't seem right to me tho.
 
NO.

NO JOKES.

...

???

I don't care I'll ask any question that comes to my mind...

(feel free to laugh it up)

And- I've seen some pics of Snead that look reverse pivot-ish.

The left one prolly is the real one tho now that I think about it....
 
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newstew.jpg


Hogan 1953 and Benk,

Are you kidding?

Even a couple of girls in a 5th grade art class can tell which one is better.

Jeff,

Are you kidding?

Even a couple of girls in a 5th grade art class WITH BIG THICK GLASSES can tell the difference.

Brian can please explain why this would be better.
Is less hip turn better?
Is less COG shift better?
If so explain why for this student.
Thank you.
 
Ringer, you have the answer, but I want you to explain to see if you REALLY know it.

If you do, I will give you MUCH credit!!!;)

Well the right shoulder has to go down plane as we all know. But there is also an out and forward component. From where it is right now, if he tries to move his right shoulder out he'll be steep and over the top. If he tries to move forward he'll be trapped, late, and stuck.
 

benk

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The reason I belive it would require more timing is because he has to time his weight shift. In the first picture [ go back to the 1st page and look at the spread ], his head does not shift to the left, and reading other posts, it does not go to the right [ reverse pivot ]. I don't think its a major timing issue, but seeing as I did this for 3 years before I switched, I can say from experience that this requires a bit of timing.

But what hes changing to do before and what hes doing now is just 2 differant ideas to swing the club. Neither is wrong, they are just differant.
 
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Let's not make this complicated. All the pictures on the right are the good ones. The pics on the left show a backswing turn with a slight reverse pivot, the pics on the right have no reverse pivot. Obviously you don't want to reverse pivot assuming the rest of your swing is pretty sound.
 
Horses for courses

Brian,

As it seems to me that there isn't just one pivot for all shots and the selected pivot has to match up with the club, your objectives and the shot at hand I'm at a bit of loss why you would compare Stewart's swing, with what looks like a 6 or 7 iron, maximum a 5 iron, with a Sam Snead pivot with a driver or fairway wood. Why would you want to go that far right with an iron, especially with Stewart's ball position? His chances of getting rid of his "high floaty fades" wouldn't, on the face of it, seem to improve.

If you compare Snead's swings with different clubs in his classic "How to play Golf" book you can clearly see how the pivot changes with the club. Page 73, bottom right hand corner, top of the swing with a short iron, he's left of a tripod centre, it seems to me. p59 Top of the backswing with his Mashie, angle not very good but he doesn't look very far right, take a look at the creases in the top of sweater as well, cervical spine to the left of his thoracic spine, thank you to David Orr for that insight. Long iron further to the right, but not much more. With his driver he's further to the right again, with the base of the neck just about in the middle of his feet.

Hogan Power Golf, the same, short iron, p116, base of the neck slightly nearer left foot than right, longer iron, p142 base of neck fractionally left of centre(?), driver swing p63 base of neck right in the middle of his feet.

Gary Player, now I know why he won 9 Majors, p82 Golf Power in Motion, 6-iron in his hand, base of neck marginally closer to left foot than right. Biily Casper, winner of 3 major championships, top of backswing 3-iron, p83, same book base of neck nearer left foot than right. Jack Nicklaus with his driver same page base of neck clearly in the centre of his feet. Trevino the same, driver base of neck middle of feet, iron, slightly nearer left foot.

In my opinion a possible cause of too much height is that Stewart doesn't get far enough left in the downswing, especially with his lower body and more precisely his left side. Look how the left knee gets stuck, it doesn't get back on top of his ankle until his hands are waist high. Virtually all good players it seems get the left knee on top of the ankle almost immediately in the downswing with an iron at least and then it continues past it. Where the legs of the trousers join should be past the ball when the left arm is parallel to the ground. Stewart's doesn't make it until impact. Indeed, partly accentuated by the forward ball position, the join in the trousers is too far to the right throughout, at the top of the back swing it is maybe a couple of inches to the right of the ball. Hogan Power Golf p142 with a medium iron, join in the trousers right over the ball. The Elk, right over it, Mac's CP six iron on you tube, slightly to the left of it, Snead right over it, Trevino, Weiskopf; Tony Lema driver Ron Watts Historic Golf Shots, fraction to the left.

Stewart, if I were you, with this club, I'd get the ball back a bit, employ a shiftless backswing with the hips and get the left knee moving back on top of the left ankle, whilst holding with the right knee a split second.
 
Can anyone tell me what the backswing is for?

When you can answer that, then you should be able understand why small distinctions are important for this transition.

The pictures on the right that Brian posted are BETTER than the ones on the left. The simple answer to the reason why is leverage. The more specific answer is leverage for the right shoulder. And even more specific is spine angle, leveraging the right shoulder down plane.

But you all go on ahead and complicate things... I'll just be over here puring some 1 irons.

(PS: The hand position back to normal has worked wonders with my new good setup)
 
Not trying to complicate things at all, Ringer just trying to improve my knowledge so I can help my students. Not sure I understand what you mean when you say "the spine angle leveraging the right shoulder downplane" is it that the lumbar spine is closer to the target than the cervical spine at the top of the backswing and that facilitates the move of the right shoulder downplane in the transition? Stewart, even with the photos on the right looks as though he's doing that, just.
 
Boy I am working hard to get this backswing pivot improved...I have REALLY been working to keep my left shoulder from going down, and then once I feel like I have made a much flatter turn, driving my right shoulder down plane.

I was hitting it pretty poorly for the first 10 holes yesterday, but after doing the "divot drill" from Confessions on the 11th tee (in the rough. :) ) I struck the ball as good as I have in an extremely long time, and played the last 8 holes in -3, with two or three misses from inside of ten feet.

Please keep the thoughts coming, they have been wonderful so far!!

Stew
 
Not trying to complicate things at all, Ringer just trying to improve my knowledge so I can help my students. Not sure I understand what you mean when you say "the spine angle leveraging the right shoulder downplane" is it that the lumbar spine is closer to the target than the cervical spine at the top of the backswing and that facilitates the move of the right shoulder downplane in the transition? Stewart, even with the photos on the right looks as though he's doing that, just.

I have tried 6 ways from Sunday to describe what I'm talking about in words, but honestly it just gets confusing every new time I try. It would be much easier to show you.

In truth everyone has this PULL when they shift their lower lumbar forward. The question is, does it pull the right shoulder ON PLANE or does it pull the right shoulder OFF PLANE.

From Stewarts position it goes off plane.

As I stated before. There is a Down, Out, and Forward component to the movement. Stewart cannot go DOWN.. he can only go Out and Forward from where he is.
 
NO.


And- I've seen some pics of Snead that look reverse pivot-ish.

Birdie,

Just ran across some pics of Snead and in agreement with you. His backswing looks similar to 2007 Wie, maybe a little more left side lean. But Johnny Miller takes the cake! (Toski's complete guide to better golf)
 

benk

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If you get his book, how I play golf [ I think thats what its called, its one of my favorites ], you'll see that he does have a pivot like a Michelle Wie, or one that Brian describes as a reverse pivot.
 
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