Quiros' Swing, Elbow Plane, Biomechanics, and NEW Manzella BLOG!

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lia41985

lia41985

New member
My dawg!:
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Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
Well, I could tell you how, but it's Brian's site and he believes that learning EEP can ruin some golfers' swings, thus, it would be completely unfair to try to show off here before we all know why Brian believes its impact may be so dreadful.

Cheers
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Dariusz J. said:
Well, I could tell you how, but it's Brian's site and he believes that learning EEP can ruin some golfers' swings, thus, it would be completely unfair to try to show off here before we all know why Brian believes its impact may be so dreadful.

Cheers
Click to expand...

I don't give a rat's arse what you tell Birdie Man.

I'll put him back together if you screw him up. :D

But seriously, J,

I know 9999 ways to get folks on the elbow plane.

How do I know 9999 ways?

I taught folks to do it for 15 years.

Go ahead, spill your guts.

Getting on the elbow plane, early or not = EASY

Playing better doing it = MAYBE

Closer to zero's = DOUBTFUL

Go ahead....give it up!
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
Brian Manzella said:
I don't give a rat's arse what you tell Birdie Man.

I'll put him back together if you screw him up. :D

But seriously, J,

I know 9999 ways to get folks on the elbow plane.

How do I know 9999 ways?

I taught folks to do it for 15 years.

Go ahead, spill your guts.

Getting on the elbow plane, early or not = EASY

Playing better doing it = MAYBE

Closer to zero's = DOUBTFUL

Go ahead....give it up!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I am pretty sure that you prolly know many ways to do many things with the student, this one included. I have serious doubts though if getting to EEP is the same easy as getting to the late EP - but I am not a world-class instructor like you are. But you still did not articulate why teaching golfers to be on the EP can ruin their swings.

And to Birdie Man - if you wanted to try the EP why haven't you asked Brian to bring you there so far with one of these 9999 ways ? You would have just tried and compare if your ballstriking improved. :)

Just curious and really I do not want to be a pain in the ass if continuing this discussion is pointless. "Spill your guts" comment make me believe that the future of this discussion here won't bring anything good.

Cheers
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
J, although I am of Brian's opinion about the elbow plane from experience as well, I would truly love to hear the opposing view of why it is a good thing to try in your opinion.

I have just seen supervised and unsupervised efforts to do so have tragic results. But good ones also.
 
S

spktho

New
Dariusz J. said:
Yeah, I am pretty sure that you prolly know many ways to do many things with the student, this one included. I have serious doubts though if getting to EEP is the same easy as getting to the late EP - but I am not a world-class instructor like you are. But you still did not articulate why teaching golfers to be on the EP can ruin their swings.

And to Birdie Man - if you wanted to try the EP why haven't you asked Brian to bring you there so far with one of these 9999 ways ? You would have just tried and compare if your ballstriking improved. :)

Just curious and really I do not want to be a pain in the ass if continuing this discussion is pointless. "Spill your guts" comment make me believe that the future of this discussion here won't bring anything good.

Cheers
Click to expand...


You challenged Brian's experiences. Brian said to "spill your guts" to get an explanation of how it could be done better. Please let us know.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
Kevin Shields said:
J, although I am of Brian's opinion about the elbow plane from experience as well, I would truly love to hear the opposing view of why it is a good thing to try in your opinion.

I have just seen supervised and unsupervised efforts to do so have tragic results. But good ones also.
Click to expand...


Why opposing view ? So do you think it's BAD to be on the EP ?

And why it's good ? Many reasons - e.g. already discussed perpendicularity of the forearm to the spine, much better sunchronization of arms (distal parts) motion in relation to the turning main body, alligning the shaft (sweetspot) with the real part of the body (forearm) and not with an invisible virtual line, less possibility of screwing the impact because of timing issues, etc, etc.

Tell me why it's bad then, Kevin - your turn. :)

Cheers

P.S. J. is the abbreviation of my family name. If anyone needs to abbreviate my name, please use rather D. from my first name. I would feel not very comfortable beginning post directed to you with S. or to Brian with M. :)
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
spktho said:
You challenged Brian's experiences. Brian said to "spill your guts" to get an explanation of how it could be done better. Please let us know.
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First of all, I challenged noone. Secondly, how could I challenge something if I do not know anything about at least one of Brian's 9999 methods ?
I asked just a question before why teaching the EEP can ruin one's swing and never received an answer.
Lastly, I don't think Brian needs an advocate. :)

Cheers
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Dariusz J. said:
Why opposing view ? So do you think it's BAD to be on the EP ?

And why it's good ? Many reasons - e.g. already discussed perpendicularity of the forearm to the spine, much better sunchronization of arms (distal parts) motion in relation to the turning main body, alligning the shaft (sweetspot) with the real part of the body (forearm) and not with an invisible virtual line, less possibility of screwing the impact because of timing issues, etc, etc.

Tell me why it's bad then, Kevin - your turn. :)

Cheers

P.S. J. is the abbreviation of my family name. If anyone needs to abbreviate my name, please use rather D. from my first name. I would feel not very comfortable beginning post directed to you with S. or to Brian with M. :)
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I never said it was bad. Obviously some of the best strikers in the world ever have done it. I just dont go out of my way to turn a natural TSP downswing into an elbow planer. I cant hit it worth a lick down there. I dont have the deep lag or axis tilt to do it.

What timing issues? And dont put etc., etc as if there's a million more reasons. Lets hear them all. I think you're a little biased to say it syncs the arms with the body better. Where's the proof in that? I cant remember ever telling an elbow planer to get off the elbow plane so I have no preference either way. I only said Ive seen ruinous results from people trying to match that forearm and shaft up pre impact. And what about aligning the shaft with another "real part" of the body - the right shoulder.

I apologize. You're right. In my haste I did type J. I'll stop doing that. It is indeed rude. In return, will you just type arms instead of distal parts?:D
 
S

spktho

New
Dariusz J. said:
First of all, I challenged noone. Secondly, how could I challenge something if I do not know anything about at least one of Brian's 9999 methods ?
I asked just a question before why teaching the EEP can ruin one's swing and never received an answer.
Lastly, I don't think Brian needs an advocate. :)

Cheers
Click to expand...

Please forgive me if I mis-interpreteed your post--it is the internet and written words can be mis-interpreted, but that's how it sounded to me.

I only asked because, I want to know in an effort to help my own golf swing and to learn. You put out what I interpret as teasers in your posts like you know something that is very important, but then stop and don't tell what it is and why it is so important--the "etc, etc" is a perfect example.

You are right that Brian doesn't need me as an advocate, and he does a hell of a lot better job at than I would anyway. I was just stirring the pot a little in an effort to get some information.:cool:

Just for my clarification: is getting on the elbow plane early similar to getting an early "pitch elbow"?
 
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G

greenfree

Banned
spktho said:
Please forgive me if I mis-interpreteed your post--it is the internet and written words can be mis-interpreted, but that's how it sounded to me.

I only asked because, I want to know in an effort to help my own golf swing and to learn. You put out what I interpret as teasers in your posts like you know something that is very important, but then stop and don't tell what it is and why it is so important--the "etc, etc" is a perfect example.

You are right that Brian doesn't need me as an advocate, and he does a hell of a lot better job at than I would anyway. I was just stirring the pot a little in an effort to get some information.:cool:

Just for my clarification: is getting on the elbow plane early similar to getting an early "pitch elbow"?
Click to expand...

I like your reason for editing your post, that's funny! :cool:
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Dariusz J. said:
And to Birdie Man - if you wanted to try the EP why haven't you asked Brian to bring you there so far with one of these 9999 ways ? You would have just tried and compare if your ballstriking improved. :)
Click to expand...

I told you already- I am trying in order to learn. I also said "for fun." Though I am not sure if that is good wording.

What I really meant, is that I'm not convinced it is any kind of Holy Grail, though it is interesting.

And yes Dariusz we know Ben Hogan was there.

(I will put that onto the table regardless of the fact that I recognize him to be a special player and certainly nowhere near a schmuck)

For now I see it as interesting and it is one thing I tinker with among hundreds.

Maybe I should just say I am very experimental.

It is no big deal.

But I don't stick with things that don't work.

You very well could have the answer. (anything is possible) I am very open-minded Dariusz.

For now though I am with Brian, if it weren't obvious enough already.

And for now, despite my efforts, I hit it vastly better on the TSP. It is not even close.

I am trying though Dariusz. (it is something I very much will try to scratch off my list coming up)
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Kevin Shields said:
J, although I am of Brian's opinion about the elbow plane from experience as well, I would truly love to hear the opposing view of why it is a good thing to try in your opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree.

I am here primarily to learn.

(or post nonsensical jibberish)
 
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