Sergio Garcia & The Tumble
- Thread starter Kevin Shields
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, depends on the finish. Your way, you're right.Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Its like dropping a ball. The drop happens in an instant, done by the hands. What happens after the drop is longer a drop, but the result. The club is tumbled, done by the golfer. Then its all downhill from there, I wouldnt consider it to continue tumbling.
oldpro
New
Is there any trick to combining the closed counterfall move with the carry? I find that when I try the closed counterfall, I end up coming in under plane.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
You're tilting too soon
Lindsey Newman
New
And what could be better than doing something to the maximum and getting straight shots? The best situation IMO. I love a "serious tumble"!
What kind of drills/ swing thought do you guys do or give students to accentuate the tumble?? I've been doing something similiar to what Brian showed on his video- I choke way,way up on the club- (right handed golfer) start from address with the butt of the club outside my left hip, make a backswing and then when I make my downswing I put the butt of the club outside my right hip. Any other thoughts or good drills?
Lindsey Newman
New
Possibly. As long as you can control how the shaft is aligned all the way down post transition, anything can work. Flying right elbows TEND to cause across the line which, in my opinion, could promote a reverse tumble all the way down - hideous.
I play across the line and have to "time" my tumble. This is because coming out of transition I am still a bit steep. I then have to reverse tumble to place the shaft in a place where I can apply a squaring effect (tumble) on the shaft/clubface. This is the double move downswing that I abhor!
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Shot Limit
New
I have a question.
You said coming out of transition you are a bit steep. Why not get rid of your flying right elbow and stop timing your tumble? IMO, and please keep in mind that I don't consider myself an expert when compared to my peers on this site, Jack flew his elbow to keep himself from going underplane. It was his way to carry it a little. If you're doing the same thing, and thinking closed counterfall but maybe carrying a little bit, but at the same time you're thinking get my hands/arms more verticle, you have to drop underplane because of your flying elbow? How does the club already being in front of your hands affect how you tumble during and post transition?
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Do you get any straight lines?
Lindsey Newman
New
Hey Neil,
Could you reiterate your question? I am not following...
Could you reiterate your question? I am not following...
Lindsey Newman
New
Yes, but it could be easier.
Interesting, I have a tendency to get too flat on the backswing, put a lot of force on the butt of the club in transition and shallow out even more. I can get away with it with the mid irons and woods, but have to real careful or I'll flat out hit some hosel rockets with the short irons. I was thinking a flying elbow may get me steeper to start with, so I'd at least have more of a fighting chance.
peterjthomps
New
My swing seems to be a lot like yours Tball, and if i don't arch my left wrist at impact, goodbye ball, straight to the right. I have to wonder, what does someone like Matt Kucher do with his flat swing that is so consistent? Even though i know what i need to do, it requires good timing. Maybe someone can explain what components work well with a flat swing.
johnnymarlboro
New
Lindsey, what happens when you try to lay it off instead of across the line?
When I feel like I'm down the target line at the top I'm still across the line. I tried Softdraw, and if the stars align I end up with a nice high draw. Most of the time I end up underplane with this awful, slappy, unsolid, low hook or push. My stock shot used to be a strong grip drag left fade. From across the line when I try to tumble with a neutral grip I hit alot of pulls. Maybe from coming in steep like you said happens to you from across the line? I don't think I'm good enough for any double moves like that to straighten out. Hell I've been tinkering so much I can't hardly hit anything solid now. Except for the ground with the sole of my club as I smack it down in frustration.
When I feel like I'm down the target line at the top I'm still across the line. I tried Softdraw, and if the stars align I end up with a nice high draw. Most of the time I end up underplane with this awful, slappy, unsolid, low hook or push. My stock shot used to be a strong grip drag left fade. From across the line when I try to tumble with a neutral grip I hit alot of pulls. Maybe from coming in steep like you said happens to you from across the line? I don't think I'm good enough for any double moves like that to straighten out. Hell I've been tinkering so much I can't hardly hit anything solid now. Except for the ground with the sole of my club as I smack it down in frustration.
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Lindsey Newman
New
Everything you mention is what I experience.
I hit lots of very good shots when I get the shaft in a left arm matching plane at the top. It's one of those things where I can get it grooving on the practice tee, but it may take years before it will appear on the first tee. Typically i will get the shaft positioned perfectly at the top and then I will have a poor hand path starting down. I have a difficult time controlling both the shaft and hand path when I lay it off. I just think it is an innate reaction I have to feeling the club shaft that open.
If your across the line you still have to control the hand path for "optimal" impact. If you let your hand path go horizontal from the top or even at the bottom, the shaft will suck back under plane.
There have been many great players who have found a way to play across the line. I look at Tom Watson, Zoeller, Carl Petterson all the time and even Nicklaus. They both had the ability to let the shaft back up a bit out of the steep transition then get back on top with tumble. I have almost, but not completely resigned myself to that double move. The other thing is that I am not convinced they (Watson, Zoeller, Petterson and Nicklaus) ever even feel the double move even though, in essence, that is what it is. To them, it probably feels like one move.
I guess in the end, as long as your able to tumble at some point whether continuously from the top or right at the last moment it does not matter.
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