The 'internet junk' swing - with Manzella Answers

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Wouldn't it be more accurate and call it the "TGM Swing"? I tried the same damn stuff. Hit the inside part of the ball, face slightly open, shaft leaning, drag the wet mop crap. Isn't this basically Tumble's worst enemy? I can't lag the sweetspot to save my life now and my golf game currently seems RUINED as I can't get back to anything.
 
I don't think its quite that simple....

Oh, if it only was... You can have your left wrist flat at impact and the clubface pointing at your golf bag. ^_^

None of these attributes, by themselves, are 'cure alls'; they are, however, attributes of tour players - back to Bobby Jones and beyond. So, naturally, golfers want to emulate these attributes - the problem is, 'feel' is very rarely 'real', so without high speed video or computer assist, golfers aren't doing what they think they're doing. They are still throwing it.
 
"Lagging the sweetspot" and "getting the sweetspot on plane" seem like good advice for a push slicer (like me). Isn't that what the twistaway and the tumble are all about?
 
That's the craziest swing I've ever seen. That guy makes Charles Barkley look like Mickey Wright and Ben Hogan's illegitimate love child.
 

leon

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Ideas that can hurt:
1) The Flat Left Wrist. I was very into this.

2) Forward lean. I was striving for a LOT of forward lean; really wanted to make sure my hands were ahead of the ball at impact.

3) Retaining Lag.

4) Inside aft/inside out. Related to the top two, I also really wanted to hit from the inside out.

5) Hitting 'down' and/or not understanding bounce. At times, I was almost trying to make the face of the iron point 'down'. Of course if you hit down, often you will just hit the ground behind the ball. I also tried to play with the leading edge of the club.

Aren't these all elements of NSA?

I think a lot of the problems come from a lack of understanding. When did you last read an instruction article that told you WHY you should do something? Its all what and how (and the how is usually vague enough to be next to useless).
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
One of the most important threads in internet history.....

The thesis, BrendanC thinks the following things—taught about on many a golf instruction website—can be over done.


Ideas that can hurt:
1) The Flat Left Wrist. I was very into this.

I have the flattest left wrist you ever saw. But I didn't start improving again—after years of going backward—until I practiced bending my left wrist through impact.

Quite simply, I had overdone it.

How?

I had no "free wheeling" clubhead>wrists>arms.

Why?

Because I thought I could "sustain impact."

Now where did I get that idea from???

YOU CAN OVER DO KEEPING YOUR LEFT WRIST FLAT.

2) Forward lean. I was striving for a LOT of forward lean; really wanted to make sure my hands were ahead of the ball at impact.

Combined with hitting the "inside-aft quadrant of the ball, I got to where I couldn't get a long iron AIRBORNE.

YOU CAN OVER DO KEEPING FORWARD LEAN.

3) Retaining Lag.

I thought about nothing but my right forefinger for a whole year.

I also thought about quitting. ;)

This does NOT happen in a good swing. You don't RETAIN LAG. You find it and you hit the damn ball with it.

The shaft SHOULD NOT BE OVERSTRESSED in the change-of-directions. The clubhead will exert all sorts of different forces on the golfer and the golfer's hands during the downswing. Trying on purpose to maintain something that is supposed to be a-changing, is coo-coo.

Unless it works for you.

Do you want to throw the clubhead past your hands on the downswing?

Hell no.

You want to use it correctly.

YOU CAN OVERDO RETAINING LAG.


4) Inside aft/inside out. Related to the top two, I also really wanted to hit from the inside out.

Are you trying to hit a huge hook?

Then don't try to do this.

Unless it works for you.

Hit the back of the ball like the great players have told us for 600 years.

Except for a couple of guys....

Maybe IT worked for THEM.

YOU CAN OVERDO HITTING THE INSIDE OF THE BALL.

5) Hitting 'down' and/or not understanding bounce. At times, I was almost trying to make the face of the iron point 'down'. Of course if you hit down, often you will just hit the ground behind the ball. I also tried to play with the leading edge of the club.

PORK CHOPS VS. BACON STRIPS.

Fluffy divots vs. Shinny divots.

See "The U-Plane" or "The Resultant Path."

Yikes.

YOU CAN OVERDO HITTING THE BALL ON THE WAY DOWN.


Brenden, that is a Great. Post. The ironic thing is I was very similar. I wanted tons-O-lag, the flattest ass left wrist possible and a huge amount of forward lean. It was good information taken to the unusable extreme. I am proud of how this site has moved away from such extreme components.

Me too.


I see slicers every day I go on the range. I think they are less 'banana slicers', but I see plenty o' slicers.

No kidding?

But I don't see (for lessons) them much anymore. But I see lots of over doers.

'mechanics from feel' instead of 'feel from mechanics.'

Only one problem with that....

Most golfers on TOUR learned the other way.


I'm not disagreeing with what Brendan said, it's just that if I had the option of understanding those concepts vs. your traditional Golf Digest-esque concepts...I'd choose the former.

And I'd take Rosie O'Donnell over Dot-Marie Jones any day.


I'm 100% confident that any concept/theory/teaching has a 'dark side' to it when it is in the wrong hands.

I'm 100% confident that some methods do in ANY HANDS.


I just don't see how having a flat left wrist, with forward shaft lean, hitting from the inside is a bad thing for 99% of the golfers I see at the public range everyday.

Sure everything can be overdone, but when they are overdoing it is when I would say thats not such a good thing.

Folks can—and do—over do things Greg.

What are your TrackMan numbers?

If you're not lagging the sweet spot - yeah, look out right and look out hosel.

I'll bet Brian has never taught an amateur with a handicap of 5 and up who didn't throw the club, or 'quit' to some degree. Sustaining lag, or clubshaft torch is all about eliminating any 'quit' through impact. And the unassailable truth is, no 'quit' = no right wrist throw away (flat to arched left wrist) and, assuming proper ball position, a clubhead traveling down through impact.

Knowing how to lag the sweetspot along with a massive amount of shaft lean is actually a good shot if you're trying to hit the ball under a bunch of trees... and we've all been there. ^_^

Well.....

I can't agree with that.

Forward lean is 1,000,000 times more important than lag.

And too much of it, is no good either.

I don't think its quite that simple....if it were, everyone on this forum would OWN golf, because a lot of us can do exactly what you talk about and still hit it all over the lot.

You can be PERFECTLY ON PLANE, hit the ball with forward lean on the inside-aft quadrant of the ball, and sustain the lag like champ, and....

Have the following TrackMan numbers with a 6-iron:

Angle of Attack: 10°
Path: 7° out
ClubFace: 2° open

And you will not be able to play dead in a B war movie.


Wouldn't it be more accurate and call it the "TGM Swing"?

No.


speed video or computer assist, golfers aren't doing what they think they're doing. They are still throwing it.

And without TrackMan, you are stone cold guessing.

Aren't these all elements of NSA?

That's why they are all sorts of adjustments AWAY FROM TOO MUCH in the video.
 
To chime in as a "beginner" who's first main experience with golf instruction were the components described in the OP. I got better immediately, however, not much better. I was overdoing it. All of the components coupled with an over-accelerating pivot was killing me. Last month I had a lesson with Mike Jacobs and now I understand how I should allow the club to work properly. Still working out some kinks but my future is definitely brighter :cool:
 
And without TrackMan, you are stone cold guessing.

How much is their stock right now? ^_^


*And I meant using "forward shaft lean" to hit an escape shot from under trees is a useful shot. We all need to know how to hit those low hooks and slices... I use them all the time. lol
 
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dbl

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One other thing about this 'over doing': I didn't overdo those things solely because of my being a fallible human, but because when I heard/read those ideas they were expressed very adamantly, and wrongly (I'd say) about the absolute correctness of the theory behind and how that particular action fits in.
 

bcoak

New
Being the beginning of the year here in MA, just curious what would be the basic items you should concentrate on to get back and lay a good foundation for the rest of the year
 
How much is their stock right now? ^_^

They aren't a publicly traded company, so it wouldn't matter. I think Brian is just saying that Trackman sees what people cannot. I believe he's utilizing a product in order to be a better teacher, not to make money. Although I don't want to put words in his mouth.
 
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